Bonus to Religions

[JPierreD]

After making a religion and preaching to nobles I have been quite surprised with the amount of them that consider IC religion to be "for sheep", them not to be interested in religious matters, them don't having time for such petty concerns or even having higher ideals sufficing, like monarchy, duty to the realm or war. This I did not expect, since all my characters, in SMA islands or not, are highly superstitious, and after the initial period in which they know the religions available they end up joining one. It seems natural to me that a medieval character will seek a church, if not for genuine interest in the religion then for social motives (he wants to appear as a respectable community member), plain superstition (insurance against bad luck/damnation/stuff), duty (the religion represents authority and tradition) or whatever other motive.

We could force the players to have a more pro-religious attitude in their characters, or convert their peasants and force the different-religion-peasants penalties, but I sincerely think the carrot is both more effective and more fun than the stick. So I propose we give some incentives for nobles to become part of religions:

* Morale faith bonus to troops.
* Morale/Loyalty/Control bonus to regions depending on the % of followers of the lord's religion, not applied to paganism. Added effect per temple (and temple size). Let's bring the opium of the masses!
* Ability of the priest to raise the morale of troops. This should only be unavailable to noble unit commanders of misguided or evil religions, since in the medieval times the characters should be superstitious enough to believe in the blessings from almost any holy man (and simply fear the curses of unholy men).

Any other ideas?

[egamma]

There is already a penalty for lord not having same faith as peasants. It could be increased, but do we want peasants telling our nobles what to do?

Your third option already exists, although you don't have to follow a religion to get it. It's the "visit temples" option on the actions page. Your religion has to have a temple of your faith in the region to use it, OR you can be faith-less. We could remove the faith-less option.

How do you know what faith your troops are? Based on the region they were recruited from?

[Norrel]

you know what faith your troops are? Based on the region they were recruited from?

Based on the troop leader's religion?

[JPierreD]

There is already a penalty for lord not having same faith as peasants. It could be increased, but do we want peasants telling our nobles what to do?

We could force the players to have a more pro-religious attitude in their characters, or convert their peasants and force the different-religion-peasants penalties, but I sincerely think the carrot is both more effective and more fun than the stick.

[Shenron]

I've had this beef in Dwilight for ages. People ignore medieval stuff e.g. religion, the hierarchy,peasant hating and then have a high mind about it.

I've just resolved to make my character as "noble" as possible and then disdain anyone else who doesn't do the same.

[Lorgan]

* Morale faith bonus to troops.
* Morale/Loyalty/Control bonus to regions depending on the % of followers of the lord's religion, not applied to paganism. Added effect per temple (and temple size). Let's bring the opium of the masses!
* Ability of the priest to raise the morale of troops. This should only be unavailable to noble unit commanders of misguided or evil religions, since in the medieval times the characters should be superstitious enough to believe in the blessings from almost any holy man (and simply fear the curses of unholy men).

Any other ideas?

I like them all. There could also be some sort of religious symbol paraphernalia (only available if you're part of a religion) that raises morale, or even better inspires awe and fear in the enemy's ranks (kind of like a fear scroll) to a certain limit, since we've already got banners for raising morale. And nobody likes fighting crazy fanatics after all, you never know what they'll do.

I'd also really really love for P/C's and P/H's to be able to recruit troops and have the option to inspire them etc.

[Bedwyr]

The traditional argument against providing more bonuses for religion is that we might get more of the empty/realm worship religions.  Personally...I think that argument is suspect, and bonuses would be handy.

[Shenron]

The traditional argument against providing more bonuses for religion is that we might get more of the empty/realm worship religions.  Personally...I think that argument is suspect, and bonuses would be handy.

Yeah I think I'd prefer empty religions than no religions. At least then we'd have kind a of "religious backdrop."

EDIT: Maybe we should add some flavour text like so:

You are currently

    the duke of Keplerstani
    a member of Keplerstan
    a believer in no established religion

As such, you owe your allegiance to your ruler. As you have no established religion, you will likely be shunned for your ignorance. You should find a priest for spiritual guidance as soon as you can.

Ok I know that was very crude but you get the idea.

[egamma]

Yeah I think I'd prefer empty religions than no religions. At least then we'd have kind a of "religious backdrop."

EDIT: Maybe we should add some flavour text like so:

You are currently

    the duke of Keplerstani
    a member of Keplerstan
    a believer in no established religion

As such, you owe your allegiance to your ruler. As you have no established religion, you will likely be shunned for your ignorance. You should find a priest for spiritual guidance as soon as you can.

Ok I know that was very crude but you get the idea.

An addition to the Global and Local Character list, extra column--religion--would make it much, much easier to discriminate against other players based on their religion.

[Chenier]

An addition to the Global and Local Character list, extra column--religion--would make it much, much easier to discriminate against other players based on their religion.

And therefore grant mainstream religions an addition advantage over less mainstream ones, as it'll be easier for them to stamp out smaller faiths. The idea has been brought up before, and countered with this same argument. For example, how long do you think the Blood Cult would have survived if people could easily track its growth in membership? And the Blood Cult probably brought more to BT than Eretzism, the Order of the Druids, Daishi, Omioism, and the Order of the Dragons combined. Just to name a few off the top of my head.

[Shenron]

And therefore grant mainstream religions an addition advantage over less mainstream ones, as it'll be easier for them to stamp out smaller faiths. The idea has been brought up before, and countered with this same argument. For example, how long do you think the Blood Cult would have survived if people could easily track its growth in membership? And the Blood Cult probably brought more to BT than Eretzism, the Order of the Druids, Daishi, Omioism, and the Order of the Dragons combined. Just to name a few off the top of my head.

If I was forced to choose the lesser of two evils. I would still have that column there... at least for dwilight just to test.

Lets compare the two quickly. What is less mainstream religions can't grow, at least it won't ruin SMA: yes I know I will be less interesting.

Lets look at what is happening currently. Nobles on Dwilight are openly stating their contempt for organized religion...  that is like a million lightyears away from SMA.

[Chenier]

If I was forced to choose the lesser of two evils. I would still have that column there... at least for dwilight just to test.

Lets compare the two quickly. What is less mainstream religions can't grow, at least it won't ruin SMA: yes I know I will be less interesting.

Lets look at what is happening currently. Nobles on Dwilight are openly stating their contempt for organized religion...  that is like a million lightyears away from SMA.

How would this help? These very same nobles could then discriminate against everyone that's part of an organized religion. That wouldn't help your cause.

[Shenron]

How would this help? These very same nobles could then discriminate against everyone that's part of an organized religion. That wouldn't help your cause.

If we added flavour text around e.g. "oh this is embarassing you aren't part of a religion" it might mix with a religion column very well.

Any suggestions?

[Chenier]

If we added flavour text around e.g. "oh this is embarassing you aren't part of a religion" it might mix with a religion column very well.

Any suggestions?

Except that this doesn't consider nobles who are part of forming or disbanded faiths. It would be bad RP if someone was devoted to a certain religion, and then join the next random faith that shows up in order to stay in an organized religion if all of his former religion's priests disappear. I generally dislike such blanket measures because they ignore exceptions and just assume that everyone has the same context, which they don't. Just like I dislike the fear-mongering message for priests who want to become warriors.

[Shenron]

Except that this doesn't consider nobles who are part of forming or disbanded faiths. It would be bad RP if someone was devoted to a certain religion, and then join the next random faith that shows up in order to stay in an organized religion if all of his former religion's priests disappear. I generally dislike such blanket measures because they ignore exceptions and just assume that everyone has the same context, which they don't. Just like I dislike the fear-mongering message for priests who want to become warriors.

No I disagree. This is exactly what I want. People who don't have a religion for any reason should have the burden of proof. They should be the exceptions.

What we should do is set a medieval status quo through game mechanics. It's fine to be different in some cases, and if you have an explanation for it, it's fine.

It shouldn't be fine to say "religion is for idiots. I'm so much better than you all." And I'm not exaggerating. This sentiment is really quite prevalent.