Author Topic: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger  (Read 11057 times)

Tom

  • BM Dev Team
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8228
    • View Profile
    • BattleMaster
Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Topic Start: November 13, 2012, 10:00:26 AM »
Important announcements should be made on the game, be it through the announcements, a short OOC message sent to everyone, or a message  put on the page, in the game is where the important announcements should be made.

Announcements are pointless. The game is long-term and announcements vanish after a short while.

The wiki is the proper place for the game "memory". Oh, and look: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies

vonGenf

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #1: November 13, 2012, 10:06:13 AM »
Announcements are pointless. The game is long-term and announcements vanish after a short while.

The wiki is the proper place for the game "memory". Oh, and look: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies

The Rules don't and shouldn't change often.

The point that was made is that a list of current bugs would be useful. It's hard to know you're exploiting a bug if you don't know it's a bug. This is a good point, regardless of whether the current case is seen as a violation of the Rules or a bug exploit or just a bug.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Gustav Kuriga

  • Guest
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #2: November 13, 2012, 10:19:31 AM »
The news ticker still has stuff from Oct. 8th Tom. That's over a month ago. Long term enough that people will have seen it. Also, last I checked the wiki DEFINITELY wasn't a required part for someone to play Battlemaster. People are even less likely to check there than the forums...

vonGenf

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #3: November 13, 2012, 10:52:23 AM »
Also, last I checked the wiki DEFINITELY wasn't a required part for someone to play Battlemaster.

On the game's home page, there is a link to basics.php, which links to the wiki. There is also a left-hand side link to the game manual, which is on the wiki. Reading all of the wiki is not required, but there are some things which you should know and are on the wiki.

I went ahead and added a link to the Rules and Policies page on the Manual.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Chenier

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 8120
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #4: November 13, 2012, 12:56:50 PM »
I would just like to point out, that the ban was made intentionally with the knowledge that it was "impossible" for Allison to take her duchy away with her.

My character wouldn't be so stupid as to ban someone who could actually get away with taking regions away from the realm in order to avoid it.

Imo, this is also abusive. Doesn't feel right that you can do anything you want to the duke of a realm's last duchy, their position of duke becomes quasi meaningless. Dukes of single-duchy realms ought to have more protections to compensate for their lack of actions... Mind you, they could always rebel.

(I'm not saying you should be punished, it's intentional game behavior right now. I just think it should work otherwise).

Announcements are pointless. The game is long-term and announcements vanish after a short while.

The wiki is the proper place for the game "memory". Oh, and look: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies

Relying solely on announcements is unwise. However, announcements complement the other documentation quite well.
Dit donc camarade soleil / Ne trouves-tu ça pas plutôt con / De donner une journée pareil / À un patron

Naidraug

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #5: November 13, 2012, 01:51:35 PM »
The Rules don't and shouldn't change often.

The point that was made is that a list of current bugs would be useful. It's hard to know you're exploiting a bug if you don't know it's a bug. This is a good point, regardless of whether the current case is seen as a violation of the Rules or a bug exploit or just a bug.

If you don't know it is a bug or not, then you should ask before you act.
Stryfe Family: Tristan - Heorot/ Scherzer - Nothoi / Finan - Caelum / Arya - Farronite Republic

^ban^

  • BM Dev Team
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1056
  • Le Genie
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #6: November 13, 2012, 02:30:56 PM »
Also, last I checked the wiki DEFINITELY wasn't a required part for someone to play Battlemaster.

Wrong.

The Inalienable Rights, Rules and Policies, and notice to new Government members are all on the wiki and are all required reading.  Players are expected to abide by the rules and guidelines laid out in each of these pages.

Imo, this is also abusive.

No, it isn't.

Quote
Doesn't feel right that you can do anything you want to the duke of a realm's last duchy, their position of duke becomes quasi meaningless. Dukes of single-duchy realms ought to have more protections to compensate for their lack of actions... Mind you, they could always rebel.

Why do they need protection? They're a duke in a single-duchy realm, which should make them the single most powerful person in the realm. If they can't protect themselves, why should the game protect them?
Born in Day they knew the Light; Rulers, prophets, servants, and warriors.
Life in Night that they walk; Gods, heretics, thieves, and murderers.
The Stefanovics live.

vonGenf

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #7: November 13, 2012, 02:36:45 PM »
If you don't know it is a bug or not, then you should ask before you act.

If you should have known, it's an exploit. Otherwise, it's a mistake. There is no point in making knowing more difficult than it should be. Figuring out the rules is not part of the game.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

vonGenf

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #8: November 13, 2012, 03:05:08 PM »
In this case, dustole was both aware that the action should not have been possible (re: a bug) and that the action was against the rules (re: cheating). He did it anyway.

I'm not trying to judge the case here. The Magistrates are for that, I'm not one. I'm just saying that, regardless of the results of this case, announcement of major bugs which cannot be swiftly fixed would be useful.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Gustav Kuriga

  • Guest
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #9: November 13, 2012, 03:16:48 PM »
Wrong.

The Inalienable Rights, Rules and Policies, and notice to new Government members are all on the wiki and are all required reading.  Players are expected to abide by the rules and guidelines laid out in each of these pages.

No, it isn't.

Why do they need protection? They're a duke in a single-duchy realm, which should make them the single most powerful person in the realm. If they can't protect themselves, why should the game protect them?

I never read through the entire wiki rules section, and I imagine many new players don't either. If it's required reading, then it should be there when someone makes a new account, before they press accept to create said account. I believe it already is there, but still, my point stands that most people don't read the wiki, and even so, a bug is definitely not something I would think of to look in the wiki for first.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 04:30:34 PM by Gustav Kuriga »

Anaris

  • Administrator
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8525
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #10: November 13, 2012, 03:25:10 PM »
I never read through the entire wiki, and I imagine many new players don't either.

That's fine. No one said you had to.

Now, if you would actually read what ^ban^ said, rather than attacking your pet strawman, you would see that what is actually required reading is a very few pages on the Wiki, all of which are given prominent links in relevant places.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Gustav Kuriga

  • Guest
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #11: November 13, 2012, 04:30:53 PM »
That's fine. No one said you had to.

Now, if you would actually read what ^ban^ said, rather than attacking your pet strawman, you would see that what is actually required reading is a very few pages on the Wiki, all of which are given prominent links in relevant places.

Changed my post for accuracy, please reread.

In fact, I honestly do not know where these links are. Could you point out where they are?

^ban^

  • BM Dev Team
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1056
  • Le Genie
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #12: November 13, 2012, 05:09:03 PM »
Changed my post for accuracy, please reread.

In fact, I honestly do not know where these links are. Could you point out where they are?

....all of them (edit: and more) are linked from the Rules and Policies page, which has already been linked in this thread. If you're going to contribute to a case, please at least take the time to read what has already been posted.
Born in Day they knew the Light; Rulers, prophets, servants, and warriors.
Life in Night that they walk; Gods, heretics, thieves, and murderers.
The Stefanovics live.

Norrel

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 841
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #13: November 13, 2012, 08:57:41 PM »
Why do they need protection? They're a duke in a single-duchy realm, which should make them the single most powerful person in the realm. If they can't protect themselves, why should the game protect them?

You've taken away their ability to protect themselves by preventing them from changing allegiance or succeeding, making them effectively politically powerless.
“it was never wise for a ruler to eschew the trappings of power, for power itself flows in no small measure from such trappings.”
- George R.R. Martin ; Melisandre

Anaris

  • Administrator
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8525
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Kabrinskia Realm Merger
« Reply #14: November 13, 2012, 09:20:29 PM »
You've taken away their ability to protect themselves by preventing them from changing allegiance or succeeding, making them effectively politically powerless.

Right, because all the political power in the game is derived from the links you, personally, can click to change stuff.

....Wait a sec....
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan