Empty duchies

[OFaolain]

So duchies can be empty under the mechanics (and empty duchies can be dissolved); how can a region be added to an empty duchy so the duchy is no longer empty?

[Eirikr]

So duchies can be empty under the mechanics (and empty duchies can be dissolved); how can a region be added to an empty duchy so the duchy is no longer empty?

It can't. As I recall, this is by design.

[OFaolain]

It can't. As I recall, this is by design.

What, really?  That's disappointing, I wanted to reinstall myself as landed Duke. 

[Velax]

If you're a Duke of an empty Duchy, would doing a religious takeover add the region to your Duchy while making you the lord of it?

[Penchant]

If you're a Duke of an empty Duchy, would doing a religious takeover add the region to your Duchy while making you the lord of it?

Probably.

[OFaolain]

On a related note, if I am a Ruler and a Duke, what will happen if I click the "take estate" button in a lordless region of another (since my duchy is empty) duchy of my realm?

[Stabbity]

On a related note, if I am a Ruler and a Duke, what will happen if I click the "take estate" button in a lordless region of another (since my duchy is empty) duchy of my realm?

Test it and find out, and report your findings.

[Eirikr]

On a related note, if I am a Ruler and a Duke, what will happen if I click the "take estate" button in a lordless region of another (since my duchy is empty) duchy of my realm?

I can actually answer that, having done it myself: You cannot be simultaneously under and over someone in the hierarchy. Therefore, even if the land has no lord, it still belongs to the other Duchy and now the other Duke breaks your chain. You will be forced to abandon the estate on the turn change, if everything is working correctly.

Similarly, making yourself lord of that region (through elections, appointment, or other action) will have the same result, also removing you from the lordship.

There's no real harm in testing it, though, just to be sure it's still working properly.

[OFaolain]

I can actually answer that, having done it myself: You cannot be simultaneously under and over someone in the hierarchy. Therefore, even if the land has no lord, it still belongs to the other Duchy and now the other Duke breaks your chain. You will be forced to abandon the estate on the turn change, if everything is working correctly.

Similarly, making yourself lord of that region (through elections, appointment, or other action) will have the same result, also removing you from the lordship.

There's no real harm in testing it, though, just to be sure it's still working properly.

What I may try and test if I can get the other player's cooperation (he just appointed himself lord since he didn't have a region) is to see if he can appoint me lord when I have an estate, and then see if I can take the region to my duchy.

[Indirik]

You cannot be a duke with an estate, and not also be a region lord. There has to be an unbroken chain, top to bottom:

Liege > Vassal
-------------------------
Ruler > Duke > Lord > Estate

You cannot occupy two positions in that chain with someone else in between.  I.e. You can't be both someone's liege and vassal. If this situation happens, then it is a bug. It should be resolved by the cleanup script, by booting you from positions, starting from the bottom up, until the discrepancy is resolved.

[Chenier]

Probably.

Getting elected to a region doesn't switch that region's duchy, so I wouldn't be surprised if RTOs didn't either.

[vonGenf]

Getting elected to a region doesn't switch that region's duchy, so I wouldn't be surprised if RTOs didn't either.

But appointment does.

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3950.msg103172.html#msg103172

[OFaolain]

Relatedly, I can't change allegiance of my empty duchy to another realm; there is one rural region left in the realm which is part of another duchy, but it will not allow me to change my duchy's allegiance, saying "You cannot change allegiance with the last city in the realm."

[^ban^]

It is intentional that duchies cannot change allegiance if no cities exist in the rest of the realm.

[OFaolain]

It is intentional that duchies cannot change allegiance if no cities exist in the rest of the realm.

Which is true for all duchies, including empty ones?  Thanks.