Astrum vs Westgard

[GundamMerc]

Are you serious? XD You are planning to get yet another small realm killed?

I'm thinking you are confusing causation and correlation. Luria Boreal had 4 nobles, one of whom was a priest, and one of whom was completely silent save for the occasional protest. Did not even move. The likelihood of that realm surviving was near nil. I came far too long after for me to make much headway against what was already going on. Other than that, I'm hard-pressed to think of any other realm I've been a part of that's been killed. Helyg Derwyddon lost a war, but agreed to a peace where they gave away a few regions. Ones that they could hardly hold anyways. That's hardly dying. So please, tell me what realm I've been a part of that's been killed directly by my actions? Besides Luria Boreal, which was so far along that it wasn't likely for me to do anything about it anyways.

In fact, Westfold was allowed to be created thanks to an alliance between Luria Nova and Helyg Derwyddon, and the war we fought against Astrum. So if you're going to accuse me of destroying realms, lets not forget that I harbored many of the nobles who would create Westfold, acting as a direct contributor to that realm's birth and gifting them Cailyn.

[Vita`]

To nitpick the record a bit, I do recall your character insisting on Cailyn being given to HD. Particularly because I also remember Seoras specifically turning a blind eye to Westfold keeping Cailyn.

[GundamMerc]

To nitpick the record a bit, I do recall your character insisting on Cailyn being given to HD. Particularly because I also remember Seoras specifically turning a blind eye to Westfold keeping Cailyn.

Hold on, let me check the map...

Might have been Shomrak I traded and wanted Cailyn in return (Cailyn was originally owned by Astrum after the split up of Morek Empire). I still effectively gave them a better region in return for the other. (Swordfell has taken Shomrak in the current war, they don't originally own it)

I'm not sure when Cailyn became a part of HD, because it seems it wasn't when I was there now that you've corrected me. Did it go rogue at some point?

[Vita`]

Now that you mention it, Shomrak being part of some trade does sound right.

I don't recall exactly, I think it may have joined HD briefly as part of some revolt. I don't recall HD ever holding Cailyn for an extended time though.

[GundamMerc]

Now that you mention it, Shomrak being part of some trade does sound right.

I don't recall exactly, I think it may have joined HD briefly as part of some revolt. I don't recall HD ever holding Cailyn for an extended time though.

Yeah, Cailyn currently does now though.

[Noone you know]

Well, Astrum has been getting ready for this war since the end of our little practice war with Luria Boreal. Months of work were put into this war. Hope this will be fun

I don't come to the forums anymore, but I kept getting these OOC messages in-game from various people that "Zakky" (didn't know who that was) "has it in for us" and is 100% going to have a war for no reason, so I felt as ruler of Westgard I owed it to my other players to see what was going on.

Can I just get this straight?

For months one of the dev team has been (partially) controlling the monster hordes that have been relentlessly hammering us and sometimes directing the takeovers of our regions. We know this for certain. 100%.

We were driven out of level 3 walls in Shrine of Seeklander, and twice out of level 2 walls in Eidulb Outskirts, and level 2 walls in Eidulb.

We repeatedly invited Astrum's General -  another dev team member - to come fight with us, but instead they intentionally avoided our army (we can quote the letter) and rode around devastating bordering cities and townships so we couldn't build up.

After twice being driven out of Eidulb, while refitting, this other dev team member jumped into Eidulb and took it over - and the monsters just *poof* all disappeared! Oh, yes - there's been a trickle... like a small boy peeing. Nothing very threatening.

So now we have a situation where the dev team controls the monsters who are attacking us, and the dev team controls the army that is attacking us "because we were going to attack someone"

And when the monsters and Astrum are in the same region, they will band together to fight us.

Did I get that all right?

(For the record - Hemmings didn't "cause trouble". He - as ruler of his realm - said, "No, you can't loot our lands")

[Noone you know]

BTW - not sure where you got the idea that the "population is growing back more easily now", but it's not.

It's completely !@#$ed.

[Zakilevo]

You got it. The monster controlling dev and I are on the same team and we will swiftly crush Westgard. You guys better ready to surrender because monsters will join forces with Astrum to overwhelm Westgard. You have no way to win this dude. You are taking on two devs. You can't win. Give up already.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Are you serious?

[Noone you know]

In Westgard, we think:

1) how completely !@#$ing inappropriate

2) how strange that the monster hordes have died down (we monitor that carefully in our part of the world)

3) we will win the war, if there's not to much "outside interference"

We're not concerned about the dev team launching monsters against us. We are concerned about how we were wiped out to nothing - but now you aren't. The "absence" of an obstacle for you that we've been fighting for months.

We're also concerned for you personally that you can't see the conflict of interest there, and that a dev team member wouldn't think that wiping out one of the most vibrant realms on Dwilight for no real reason kind of goes against the best interest of the game.

Yes, we are completely !@#$ing serious.

I go back into "Forum Retirement". See you on the battlefield.

[Zakilevo]

1) ?

2) They have? They've been hitting us for the past 4 days. 7k minimum. Not sure what you mean by them dying down but they obviously haven't.

3) You will? I have to disagree.

You are so wrong on so many levels I am not sure you can be convinced in any meaningful way. Do you even read what you write? If you think devs are toying with you why are you still playing? Do you honesty think devs are some teenagers who like to torment players to satisfy their inferiority complex or something? You are insulting people who are busy with their lives spending what little leisure time they have on this ancient game because they cherish the good moments they had years ago. Do you think Tom would put someone who would turn the game into their own play thing in charge? I am not sure what you are trying to get at here.

I am sorry but you are the one who is trying to get Westgard wiped. We waited and patiently prepared ourselves for 3 months because we had not enough nobles and hardly any infrastructure to even be any threat to Westgard. What have you done during that time? Throwing insults at Astrum's ruler, throwing empty threats, and lying about various things. And you think Westgard shouldn't be fighting a war?

So Westgard should get a special treatment because it has more nobles than other realms? Why should Westgard be spared from anything? Since Westgard was created by Anaris should it be treated like a special case? I am sorry but we are all playing the same game and I may feel terrible about fighting a realm Anaris created persoanlly, I won't treated it specially. That would be terribly unfair for players of Astrum who had to listen to your crap for the past 3 months. It is obvious this thread won't serve any purpose other than just fuel OoC hate at this point.

[Constantine]

"Don't like it? Get out" is the worst attitude you could come up with here.
The fellow has some valid points.
Players who quit the game after the rogue invasion in the west were not all petty whiners. They felt legitimately screwed by the devs because of unfair treatment.
The very same thing is now happening to frontier realms, ten times worse for Westgard because they were placed in the spot with no chokepoints.
This is a real issue and it sucks if all devs can answer to this is "just suck it up".

[Anaris]

Can I just get this straight?

For months one of the dev team has been (partially) controlling the monster hordes that have been relentlessly hammering us and sometimes directing the takeovers of our regions. We know this for certain. 100%.

And you're right!

But do you know what the purpose of that control has been?

It has been entirely aimed at redirecting monster hordes away from Westgard, to give the realm a fighting chance.

I haven't done it for at least a month or so, due to RL time sinks, though.

So...you're welcome.

[Anaris]

"Don't like it? Get out" is the worst attitude you could come up with here.
The fellow has some valid points.
Players who quit the game after the rogue invasion in the west were not all petty whiners. They felt legitimately screwed by the devs because of unfair treatment.
The very same thing is now happening to frontier realms, ten times worse for Westgard because they were placed in the spot with no chokepoints.
This is a real issue and it sucks if all devs can answer to this is "just suck it up".

Westgard has the peculiar distinction of being a realm that was created, by the dev team, with a singular purpose in mind: to be a frontier realm to fight a near-hopeless battle against the hordes of Western Dwilight. At no point in its existence has it not had to fight for its life against monsters.

That means that at no time has anyone been able to join Westgard without knowing that being a part of that realm means having to fight against monsters, all the time. Everyone there opted into that life.

That doesn't mean they aren't allowed to then opt out...but, frankly, I don't see a reasonable argument that opting out could be anything but leaving the realm. If you can present one to me that makes sense, I'm willing to listen, but I haven't been able to come up with one myself.

[Gabanus family]

Boys it's time to play nice again. Zakky,you know I well understand your position but try to realize that there are other 'frustrated' people on the other side and rephrase it a bit. This conversation is growing hostile due to many reasons and there's no need for that.

Noone you Know at the same time there is also no need to start throwing around random accusations against anyone at this point. Monsters have been this tough on anyone and they made an announcement that they would make it a bit more bearable. They've lowered the number of monsters you should be seeing and in the East they went a bit more extreme for those rogue regions/monsters which are not connected to the great waste of rogue. Which means that Arnor for instance should see about the same level of monsters and size of monsters as you do in Westgard. I'm not a fan of all dev decisions myself either, but there is no proof that they're targetting any realm specifically (not that the real devs that code and do anything don't even play the game aymore. Anaris hasn't for years I think and Vita quit a while ago) and it doesn't serve any good to start saying this. Westgard had it rough and it was supposed to be such. I was one of the players that saw its realm destroyed when they upped the monsters in the West but I understand that it had to be done, didn't make me more sad to see Barca disappear though. The devs however try to do what is best for the realm, generally speak to a lot of people but the problem is all those people have different opinions.

As to Westgard, in terms of full disclosure I'll end by saying that my char is one of those pushing for Westgard's destruction, the hardest prob. My char is the same one who got ESA accepted in Astrum, who's trying to turn Astrum on Arnor for the future and some other stuff, but also the destruction of Westgard. The reason he does so IC is due to his belief on the Bloodstars and the Bloodflow specifically which he'll come preaching in Westgard soon and to him faith is everything. That belief of faith is in part rooted in OOC as well in that we need more conflict between realms and currently the nobles are too widespread. Killing Westgard will force them to migrate East with a hatred towards Astrum. This is good as it lowers total density and thus the monsters, and it creates new opportunity for tension as Astrum is currently the strongest realm and will have made some new enemies. I don't have a desire to destroy nations, but in this case I think it would benefit the continent by densing population in the East and lowering a bit the monsters. I would even like to see a war on Madina someday in the future to push them up north towards Luria as well.

[Foxglove]

Westgard has the peculiar distinction of being a realm that was created, by the dev team, with a singular purpose in mind: to be a frontier realm to fight a near-hopeless battle against the hordes of Western Dwilight. At no point in its existence has it not had to fight for its life against monsters.

Significant efforts have been made in Westgard to make the most of that from the start - the idea of the realm being a wall of light and civilization against the wilderness. Given its position, Westgard also has the peculiar distinction of never, ever, being short of battles. It will never be a realm that sinks into endless peace as it always has action on its doorstep.

There are significant numbers of players in the realm who enjoy the Player vs Environment gameplay (probably unique in the game). That doesn't mean that people don't get frustrated when they have 10,000k+ rogues bombarding them day-in, day-out, and start to feel demoralised and overwhelmed. But I think it's important to note that there is a proportion of players who enjoy the battle against the wilds that you get in Westgard when it's well balanced.

It has been entirely aimed at redirecting monster hordes away from Westgard, to give the realm a fighting chance.

I haven't done it for at least a month or so, due to RL time sinks, though.

Such efforts are appreciated and do help to make Westgard a good place to play. It's that old D&D Dungeon Master rule that you have to try to make adversaries challenging, but not crushing, to make things entertaining for the players.

Killing Westgard will force them to migrate East with a hatred towards Astrum. This is good as it lowers total density and thus the monsters, and it creates new opportunity for tension

That may or may not be the case. It's sort of the same rationale that was behind the big freeze (kill off places to force people to migrate), and that didn't entirely work. It's important to note that very many of the players in Westgard went there specifically because it was the realm that was created on Dwilight for the players who had to move characters there from islands that were closed. People went to westgard because they had the chance to create something new from scratch. That was part of the attraction and lured in players (like me) who had never played on Dwilight before. If Westgard is destroyed, players there may migrate to other realms or they may simply stop playing on Dwilight. Personally, I couldn't predict which way I'd go. The main things I enjoy about playing in Westgard in the West are things that I couldn't get elsewhere on Dwilight. More than likely, any OOC theory that's based around purposely killing of Westgard (or any realm) with the idea of forcing players to migrate to other realms is misguided.

The reason he does so IC is due to his belief on the Bloodstars and the Bloodflow specifically which he'll come preaching in Westgard soon and to him faith is everything.

The Bloodstars do have a presence in Westgard - you just have to look for it - and priests were invited to openly preach in the realm in the early days. Then, at some point, they simply gave up and disappeared. You have to remember that the nobles in Westgard were largely entirely new to Dwilight and had no knowledge of the Bloodstars or any other native religion. A priest of the Bloodstars came to the realm and started to teach the nobles about the religion. Then that stopped. From their perspective, priests stopped showing any interest in them.

However, from an OOC point of view, you have to wonder whether the West of Dwilight having different religious beliefs to the Bloodstars would make the place more interesting. On balance, it probably would.