Population

[Gildre]

I was looking at the realm list on Dwilight the other day, and noticed that a shocking amount of realms have almost as many regions as nobles. On the map development thread someone suggested that maybe we alter the Dwilight map so that realms don't have to spread out so thin. This apparently would be a massive and near impossible undertaking.

However, the issue remains. In Luria Nova, for example, nearly everyone is a region lord. There are simply no knights. Pretty much the limit of exploitation as far as spreading out goes, and we are still pretty far removed.

So here is what I am wondering: Could we perhaps alter the rules to allow TWO characters per player on Dwilight? This would bolster the ranks of knights in the realms, and allow for brother/sister/cousin whatever RP.

The other continents seem to be doing ok, but Dwilight is HUGE and we don't have the player base to cover it. I think this could solve that problem.

[Zakilevo]

No. 2 chars per continent ain't coming back.

What we need is a system which allows realms with higher density to expand more easily while making realms with low density to have trouble holding on to regions.

I don't really get why we went down the path of trying to limit realm sizes based on the region count instead of the noble to region density. I think large realms are fine as long as their density is high. Well managed and highly populated realms should be rewarded while less denser realms like Fissoa or LN should probably only be able to keep half of their current regions at most.

Some people think having more realms is better and I can get behind that but what is the point of having many small realms when they only have 5 nobles per realm? You need at least 15 to have a realm that even bothers to send a letter or two per turn. Realms with less than 10 nobles are usually very quiet and hard to motivate. Personally, I think we should be merging those realms. Large realms are not bad if they are active. I think activity should come first to increase player retention. Instead we are going backwards.

[Anaris]

I don't really get why we went down the path of trying to limit realm sizes based on the region count instead of the noble to region density. I think large realms are fine as long as their density is high. Well managed and highly populated realms should be rewarded while less denser realms like Fissoa or LN should probably only be able to keep half of their current regions at most.

The problem with large realms is that they have an oppressive effect on the continent, or at least the area around them. If you are a small realm located near a large one, either you're their friend, or you're going to get invaded very painfully.

And when I say "friend," I'm not talking about any particularly two-sided sort of relationship.

Yes, right now, with our player density issues, low-density realms are worse for the game. However, no matter what the density, the effect of large realms on their area doesn't go away.

[Zakilevo]

The problem with large realms is that they have an oppressive effect on the continent, or at least the area around them. If you are a small realm located near a large one, either you're their friend, or you're going to get invaded very painfully.

And when I say "friend," I'm not talking about any particularly two-sided sort of relationship.

Yes, right now, with our player density issues, low-density realms are worse for the game. However, no matter what the density, the effect of large realms on their area doesn't go away.

You are overlooking one thing though Anaris. Realms like GX will still have the same effect despite their smaller size. You can't avoid large realms. People will simply find ways to work around it. I feel like if we do get enough players, we will simply see the days of old CE alliance.

[Anaris]

You are overlooking one thing though Anaris. Realms like GX will still have the same effect despite their smaller size. You can't avoid large realms. People will simply find ways to work around it. I feel like if we do get enough players, we will simply see the days of old CE alliance.

So what you're saying is that we should be limiting not based on realm density but simply based on noble count?

So once a realm is at, say, twice the average noble count, we should stop them from gaining more nobles....?

[Zakilevo]

No. I was thinking more on the line with making the limit more flexible like let's say you have 30 nobles in a realm with 10. Then you can expand to 15 without any penalty while if you have a realm with 10 nobles, you can't expand beyond 5 without suffering penalties. So limit would continue to go higher the more nobles you have. It will limit your realm as you lose nobles overtime.

Penalties could be different things too. If you want to avoid punishing people directly for losing density, you can simply make it impossible to expand or regions without lords a lot less efficient in terms of resource production. Or more likely to fall to takeovers.

[GundamMerc]

The problem with large realms is that they have an oppressive effect on the continent, or at least the area around them. If you are a small realm located near a large one, either you're their friend, or you're going to get invaded very painfully.

You would have a point, were this not Dwilight. Its sheer size prevented even the SA alliance from influencing the whole of the continent.

[Gildre]

Uhh I am on the side that big realms are detrimental to the game. Look at Atamara in its last ages. It was basically two realms. EC has Sirion who wield insane influence.

My big concern is that we don't have enough people to have knights in most of the Dwilight realms, and there are still tons of wild lands separating some of the realms on the eastern half of the continent.

Cutting the continent down of excess regions and stitching it back together has been shot down. Adding a second character slot has been shot down. Any other options we can explore?

[Zakilevo]

Nothing I can think of. Nobody wants to be relocated. Nobody can agree on a solution so we are at an impasse.

[Sacha]

Have big realms ever been detrimental to Dwilight in the same way the giant alliances of AT and EC have been?

[Zakilevo]

Have big realms ever been detrimental to Dwilight in the same way the giant alliances of AT and EC have been?

I don't think giant realms were the problem. Giant alliances were. You can gang up on one big guy like Fontan, SoA, and Westmoor did but when you have biggest realms on the continent all allying to form a bloc then you can't really do much.

[Vita`]

Cutting the continent down of excess regions and stitching it back together has been shot down. Adding a second character slot has been shot down. Any other options we can explore?

I don't think players don't really want a solution. It's one of those prisoner dilemma situations where everyone would be better off if everyone would sacrificed a little, but no one wants to take the risk because of fear they will lose their titles, lands, realms and someone else will have some. Rather than focus on where we all win - the process of playing and struggle.

We have too many lands per nobles. Players don't want to give up their lands because they've always had them and therefore, according to them, they should always have them for the future. Which means we keep dead quiet, isolated realms because the rulers have more fun looking at their titles than actually engaging their players. And if anyone suggests this is just because there are too many monsters to engage other players, the players weren't being engaged before the monster increases either, hence the reason for monster increases to apply pressure, without overwhelmingly killing realms. But nooo...players see monsters and decide 'this is our land and we will never ever forsake it, even if it means a crappy experience for new players'.

[Vita`]

You would have a point, were this not Dwilight. Its sheer size prevented even the SA alliance from influencing the whole of the continent.

SA influenced the whole continent, but it wasn't able to control the whole continent.

[Zakilevo]

SA influenced the whole continent, but it wasn't able to control the whole continent.

Indeed. Like Indirik and I used to say, we ran out of nobles to create more theocracies with XD.

[MTYL]

Cutting the continent down of excess regions and stitching it back together has been shot down. Adding a second character slot has been shot down. Any other options we can explore?

Getting more players? That would most likely solve the problem.