The Enweil/Riombara thread

[vonGenf]

why a 8 duchy realm? nowhere does it say cities make duchies.

Right, sorry, still not completely used to it.

[Chenier]

Little has changed. A blighted Fwuvoghor or a heavily-fortified Fwuvoghor still means a quasi-impenetrable Riombara. As long as Avalon remains blighted, because the only ones who could seriously strike Fwuvoghor was Enweil, and doing so was extremely costly and resulted in exposing the southern front (and therefore the main cities).

All this means is that it will take forever for Riombarans to get to anywhere else on the continent.

[Foundation]

OP Riombara?  Naaaah.

[fodder]

um... it's not impenetrable, at least in theory

because as enweil had done it before.. they fight in Fwu... perhaps even lose, and then just go right past it.

now.. imagine it being done deliberately with very low retreat rates... they'll have a fun time looting as long as Fwu had only militia (ie.. no one chasing) and there's no one else chasing the other way from south to north through the chain (because the others are engaged elsewhere... for example) and as long as the whole point is looting and not surviving.

bit moot as now there's just no route.

[^ban^]

Enweil took Fwuvoghor before: that's how we ended up with RoF, after all.

I'm sure that if they had the opportunity, and the means, they'd do it again. Not likely they still have those, though...

[Chenier]

Enweil took Fwuvoghor before: that's how we ended up with RoF, after all.

I'm sure that if they had the opportunity, and the means, they'd do it again. Not likely they still have those, though...

Enweil reclaimed it from Mordred after the third invasion, and held onto it until the monsters retook it for him in the fourth invasion.

um... it's not impenetrable, at least in theory

because as enweil had done it before.. they fight in Fwu... perhaps even lose, and then just go right past it.

now.. imagine it being done deliberately with very low retreat rates... they'll have a fun time looting as long as Fwu had only militia (ie.. no one chasing) and there's no one else chasing the other way from south to north through the chain (because the others are engaged elsewhere... for example) and as long as the whole point is looting and not surviving.

bit moot as now there's just no route.

Yea, we did that once. Fheuv'n, I think, not quite sure. Looting was bugged, though, and so the whole exercise was pointless. Also, doing that has a very high cost, even if retreat rates are low. Yea, the remaining forces can go loot the rural regions of the isles... But Rio can easily crush the forces and then push into Enweil. Or ignore the battered army and siege Enweilieos.

Riombara is pretty much unbreachable, and has been since the fourth invasion. Enweil alone can't take it on: Avalon was crucial to breaking the stalemate after the third invasion. Without Avalon, no significant progress would have been possible against Riombara. After the fourth invasion, Enweil didn't stand a chance, with Ete blighted and Fwuvoghor folding back to Rio. Rio was stronger than ever and Enweil weaker than ever.

[Tan dSerrai]

Before the fifth invasion Enweil + IVF had more economic strength, a higher average combined CS and /far/ better food production. Enweil alone had near our total CS. If IVF had supported Enweil efficiently (as they did state they would) then we'd have been in a lot of trouble.

And on one point I massively disagree: Enweil had the advantage of interior lines. Stationing an army in Enweilios they could strike against Kuugl within 2 halfdays - and against Fwuvoghor in 3-4 halfdays. While Riombara could either station an army at one end of their realm (Kuugl or Fwu), then march 8 halfdays towards the other end. Or station an army in Rines, reaching Fwuvoghor in 4 and Kuugl in 5 halfdays. Or, counted differently: distance between the two borders between Enweil and Riombara: 4 regions for Enweil, 9 for Riombara. I can tell you I was /very/ glad Enweil did never capitalize on this.

[Chenier]

Before the fifth invasion Enweil + IVF had more economic strength, a higher average combined CS and /far/ better food production. Enweil alone had near our total CS. If IVF had supported Enweil efficiently (as they did state they would) then we'd have been in a lot of trouble.

And on one point I massively disagree: Enweil had the advantage of interior lines. Stationing an army in Enweilios they could strike against Kuugl within 2 halfdays - and against Fwuvoghor in 3-4 halfdays. While Riombara could either station an army at one end of their realm (Kuugl or Fwu), then march 8 halfdays towards the other end. Or station an army in Rines, reaching Fwuvoghor in 4 and Kuugl in 5 halfdays. Or, counted differently: distance between the two borders between Enweil and Riombara: 4 regions for Enweil, 9 for Riombara. I can tell you I was /very/ glad Enweil did never capitalize on this.

I am considering movement rates in this, too. Riombara always had a much more reliable army than Enweil had. The secession was also a serious mistake, as even if it reduced distance from capital penalties, we were stuck with a rogue-plagued realm with a far-off capital, and Enweil was left without proper military leadership.

Also, as for the economy, the estate systems considerably favored compact realms with big cities and townslands like Rio over vast rural realms like Enweil. Our estate efficiency was atrocious. It's true we had more food, but you never seemed to be starving, so that doesn't really change anything.

Yea, Fwuvoghor wasn't to far from Fengen... But it was fortified. When we owned Fwuvoghor, we did launch strikes from there. But even then we had to be careful, because every attack from the north left the south exposed. And Rio could attack from any two regions in the South, it was impossible to truly block you, and the only buffer to Enweilieos was Lopa (which was eventually lost), meaning that a strike on Enweilieos could be followed by a takeover.

You seem to overestimate the advantages of striking through the North... Last time we did it, barely any troops survived and almost all nobles who participated in bypassing Fwuvoghor ended up captured. Sure, it would take you a long time to reach them if you left from Grehk... but that would be a stupid move to begin with. If Enweil attacks you via Fwuvoghor, your best move would have been to strike at Enweil's south, not to waste your time chasing a battered army in the North.

As long as Fwuvoghor was Rio's, there was nothing to capitalize on.

I do find it ironic that it now seems that Rio is running out of food, and may starve itself. After all that happened.

[Tan dSerrai]

The one time you /did/ attack Fwuvoghor - you had a field army around 40% stronger than ours. You should have attacked Kuugl with that army - we could not have opposed it in the open field. I was /glad/ you chose Fwuvoghor - you gave us ample warning which allowed us to recruit additional militia /and/ allowed us to combine our full field army with that militia.

The only place we were able to oppose the massive army Enweil and IVF had gathered - was Fwuvoghor (militia+field army+walls+ the ability to hide our strength in Melegra). You chose to attack there /and/ gave us ample time to react to it. Forgive me, but if I had had command of that army I'd either have feinted into Kuugl, then struck Fwuvoghor...or the other way round. Ample possibilities. Yet the tactical oportunity was squandered.

Chenier, it is not always 'outer circumstances handicapping you' as you are so fond of claiming...if you make mistakes and others do not then you lose - simple as that. Enweil was defeated mainly due to IVF not supporting them (I kept wondering where your troops were) - and through making more mistakes than we did. This way a situation favoring Enweil and IVF on both strategic and economic level did still result in a riombaran victory. If you now think that the basic situation did favor /us/ - then you did not realize the advantages you had. Fine by me 

[Lefanis]

This is going to be interesting.

Two families that had been banned for life from Riombara are now in Riombara. One even managed to get a lordship. What's next!

[Geronus]

They let a Lefanis back in? How dumb are they?

In all fairness though, there are only a very small handful of characters left who were actually in Riombara when Mordred betrayed the realm: Majsuen Pablo and Kendrick Date, as far as I know. And Kendrick, despite his loyalty, was never one to pursue a grudge the way Evander did. Evander's attitude toward a Lefanis coming back to Riombara was "over my dead body." He was the one who saw to it that the AC did not permit Kay to stay in Riombara the last time you tried to make a comeback. But now he's in semi-retirement, so it looks like you're free and clear, amazingly enough.

[vonGenf]

They let a Lefanis back in? How dumb are they?

He came back very silently. I think he tiptoed in slippers. 

[Lefanis]

Majsuen Pablo and Kendrick Date, as far as I know. And Kendrick, despite his loyalty, was never one to pursue a grudge the way Evander did.

Heh, Malagant picked an estate in Rines when he got there. Duke Kendrick told him to GTFO, that Lefaniss' were banned from Riombara.

I guess he didn't pursue it after Malagant left his duchy.

In all fairness though, there are only a very small handful of characters left who were actually in Riombara when Mordred betrayed the realm: Majsuen Pablo and Kendrick Date, as far as I know.

And Ishimu 

They let a Lefanis back in? How dumb are they?

Hey, they're now letting in a Chenier.

[Geronus]

And Ishimu 

I specifically didn't mention him since he was as much of a traitor as anyone. He got a pass way back when because Evander deemed it to be too much effort to go after him when Khaludh brought his duchy back to Riombara. The rest of the AC was considerably more apathetic than Evander was when it came to exacting retribution on the traitors and conspirators after the Meridian Republic fell apart. Nigel De La Fere got away with it for the same reason.

Hey, they're now letting in a Chenier.

*Geronus does a double take and starts looking around for daimon portals

Say what...? If that's not a sign of the end times, I don't know what is...

[Telrunya]

Don't worry. There's a lot of dissent in Riombara about that decision. It'll be fun to see how that turns out. But yes, the Referendum actually passed.