Spells Feedback

[Tom]

Because there is no message system currently, so rejecting a spell does not tell the inventor anything:

Skim Thoughts - like the other mind/perceive spell, I'll reject this one because the target should be 2 - you are reading the thoughts of a human, not of his head. That's a modern/mechanical thought, in a holistic/magical view, thoughts aren't located in the head, they are the property of the whole being.

With a target of 1, you could read the "thoughts" or emotions of a small animal.

[Tom]

ok, now it's better:

We now have a "lifecycle" for spell inventions.

When the spell gets rejected, you will see it as "rejected" under your "under research" list. There will be a link "rework" next to it. You can review the rejection reason there, modify the spell and submit it again. The GMs will see that this is a reworked, not a new spell, and the reason why they (or some other GM) rejected it initially. They can then accept the re-submitted spell, or reject it again.

Right now, there is no "final rejection" at which point a spell would be deleted.

[Zakath]

Would it be possible to modify spells until they're considered by a GM? It may be less of a problem once the game gets going, but in my spell submission frenzy I've made a mistake or two. Not a big issue, but means you have to reject my spell and I have to rework it later rather than me just fixing the mistake.

Could cause a race condition if someone evaluates it at the same time as I fix the mistake, but that should be solvable.

[Nosferatus]

As long as you guys know i am claiming the poly morphing spells ;)
My character Circe will start with only the ability to change a living form into another. and depending on how much fun it will be, she will probably stay with that, no destructive spells etc, just her trying to fool people or get way from certain situations. just be careful not to step on the cattle in the cities...

[loren]

I would at this time recommend submitting spells that are 'basic'.  Like invisibility for example.

[Indirik]

If we create spells now using the official interface, will they be available when the game officially starts, or will they be wiped on official release?

Will the spells that are created ever be made publicly available?

Will it be possible to see spells that others have created, and learn them?

Will we be able to indicate somehow that we want to teach a particular other player a specific spell?

Will it be possible to indicate that a spell is, for lack of a better term, "released into the public domain"?

What happens if two people create essentially the exact same spell, but with different names? I assume this is allowed?

Will rituals be designed in a manner similar to spells? If not, then how will it be determined how many people, time, and materials are required?

[Zakath]

As Tom said in another post the spells created now will be available. I'm guessing we won't know them at the start, with the possible exception of a few simple ones, but they're going to be in the game. He said there would be some advantage to be the creator.

Spells can be learned, but you have to learn them from someone. At a guess simple spells will probably be more or less learn able by anyone, maybe at a higher cost if noone teaches you, while more complex ones will likely be one off spells. You can invent it, but if I want to learn it I have to beg, borrow or steal your works.

Rituals follow much less rigid structures. You pick your base and intent, as well as effect, and start performing it either alone or with help. If you pick decent costs for it the GM's will just let you continue, but if you decide that you can create the Sword of Instant Death(tm) in 5 minutes without expending any resources they'll just slap you with a "Didn't happen, try again with this cost..." or some spectacular failure.

The rest I dunno. I'm guessing no duplicate spells, but they might let it slide if it happens simultaneously.

One of the greatest benefits of Councils is just that, sharing spells. Depending on the council in question all spells might be held in common, they might be divided into ranks, they might require you to have rare spells to join etc. Council politics really are half the fun of the game IMO, can't have spellcasters without some intrigue and fun.

[loren]

Spells made now are going to go live.  Unless something needs to be reset for an unknown reason.

[Indirik]

Thanks for the answers.

The rest I dunno. I'm guessing no duplicate spells, but they might let it slide if it happens simultaneously.

I would think that anyone would be able to duplicate any effect, given the appropriate research time. It's not like once one person learns to carve a depression in a block of wood that no one else will ever be able to learn how to make a bowl.

[Zakath]

I would think that anyone would be able to duplicate any effect, given the appropriate research time. It's not like once one person learns to carve a depression in a block of wood that no one else will ever be able to learn how to make a bowl.

That would be the reasoning behind duplicating a simple spell like lighting a fire, boiling water, mending bones etc. The principle is simple, as is the execution of it. In game terms it's likely to be the exact same spell as some other spellcaster has researched, but you'll probably have to research it from scratch if that takes longer than learning a spell from another caster.

More advanced spells like teleportation, farsight, polymorph and the likes probably aren't quite as easy. Everyone's inherently able to cast those spells, but that doesn't mean you can just do it. It'd probably be more like a well crafted piece of software, you understand what it does but without the source code you can't just go around duplicating it.

I'm not sure where exactly the limit on what you can just "pick up" will be, if allowed at all.

There will be only one Fireball spell, making up your own won't work. Because getting spell formulas, trading for them, etc. is a major part of the game. And control of some especially interesting spells will be part of what the councils powers could be.

[Indirik]

More advanced spells like teleportation, farsight, polymorph and the likes probably aren't quite as easy. Everyone's inherently able to cast those spells, but that doesn't mean you can just do it. It'd probably be more like a well crafted piece of software, you understand what it does but without the source code you can't just go around duplicating it.

Why not? All our characters are expert programmers? Just because I don't duplicate the source code character-for-character doesn't mean that I can't get the same effect. There are, after all, many different programming languages, formatting conventions, etc.

There will be only one Fireball spell, making up your own won't work.

So, once someone creates a spell for a ball of fire that flies out and blows up, no one else can ever make a spell that has a ball of fire that flies out and blows up? Or does that mean that I can't call mine "Fireball", it has to be called "Indirik's Spherical Conflagration"? Or perhaps mine has to have blue fire, instead of orange fire? Or it's made of hot plasma instead of burning fire?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, here. I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the system. It seems to me that if once the generic spells have been designed, that creating new ones will get more and more difficult. So the people that start first, and especially the ones that "register" all the common spells, will have a huge advantage over the people that start later.

[Zakilevo]

Can you modify someone else's spell? Like if someone created the fire ball spell, can I modify it some way to make it into some kind of smaller but has more penetration or something?

[James]

Who has the most spells is not what would decide who does best, it's who knows how to use their spells to the best effect that will always come out on top...

Also, it is right that the people who have been around longer will be the stronger ones, but then it's down to those new to magic to put in the effort to learn things for themselves, or find someone to teach them...

[Anaris]

Who has the most spells is not what would decide who does best, it's who knows how to use their spells to the best effect that will always come out on top...

BS.

Sorry, but if the game is based around magic, and you can't start out with stronger magic, the one who knows more different spells is going to have an enormous advantage over the one who knows only a few.

Yes, you can be somewhat clever about how you use spells, but the system is specifically designed so that you can't, for instance, use a Fireball to start the trees on fire to send up a plume of smoke to signal someone.  Fireball, being a Harm spell, must be used to hurt someone.

So even if you're very clever, your options are pretty limited.

Also, it is right that the people who have been around longer will be the stronger ones, but then it's down to those new to magic to put in the effort to learn things for themselves, or find someone to teach them...

I think the problem here isn't just that someone who comes along later will have fewer spells because it's a younger character.  The problem is that the people here right now have the chance to research lots of basic spells, spells that are simple and obvious, but that haven't been laid out by the GMs from the start.  They get to make them up, and then their characters know them.

When people come along later, they will not be able to research these basic spells, because once one person has created Fireball, no one else can ever learn a Fireball spell except from them! (or, obviously, in a chain leading back to them)

So people here now get to boost their stock of useful starting spells by some arbitrary amount, a boost which the later people will not have access to.

[Zakilevo]

Are  you serious?

People won't be learning early spells if they join too late? That is insane!