Taxing Religions/Secret Societies

[Anaris]

Well you can already use Secret Societies this way, so it wouldn't exactly plug the hole...

Well, when the new system goes online, SSes will be taxed too, so yes, it would.

[Ramiel]

Well, when the new system goes online, SSes will be taxed too, so yes, it would.

Tom said that? o.0

[Nosferatus]

Tom said that? o.0

he said guilds and temples.
I can't imagine how you could tax a secret treasury of some  secret society.

[Vellos]

Well, when the new system goes online, SSes will be taxed too, so yes, it would.

Now that is what we call "stupid."

[Indirik]

Re Taxing temples: Makes sense to have this as an option for realms, if they want to tax temples. However, I worry about what this will do to temple funding. This will be a serious drain on temples, requiring them to be visited much more frequently to keep the treasury stocked so they don't fall apart.

Re Taxing SSs: Wut? This makes no sense. The reason the treasury cap was put in place for SSs is because they are not taxed.

[Bedwyr]

Agreed.  Taxing temples should not be mandatory, and taxing SS...I can't even figure out how that would work.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Re Taxing temples: Makes sense to have this as an option for realms, if they want to tax temples. However, I worry about what this will do to temple funding. This will be a serious drain on temples, requiring them to be visited much more frequently to keep the treasury stocked so they don't fall apart.

Re Taxing SSs: Wut? This makes no sense. The reason the treasury cap was put in place for SSs is because they are not taxed.

Would have to agree with Indirik on this one.

[Vellos]

An option to tax temples is totally fine. And would be a very, very fun political tool.

But a universal taxation of temples will undermine an already struggling aspect of the game, religion.

[Geronus]

Re Taxing temples: Makes sense to have this as an option for realms, if they want to tax temples. However, I worry about what this will do to temple funding. This will be a serious drain on temples, requiring them to be visited much more frequently to keep the treasury stocked so they don't fall apart.

Re Taxing SSs: Wut? This makes no sense. The reason the treasury cap was put in place for SSs is because they are not taxed.

I second both of these sentiments. Keeping a religion funded takes work as it is. To tax them in addition would make it even more onerous. Religions and guilds both add a lot of flavor to the game, yet I personally have sworn off founding guilds precisely because of how much of a pain in the neck they are to manage from a financial standpoint.

And yes, the SS thing makes no sense at all.

[Nosferatus]

An option to tax temples is totally fine. And would be a very, very fun political tool.

But a universal taxation of temples will undermine an already struggling aspect of the game, religion.

Yes and no.
Lords would love to have religions, and especialy rich ones build there temples in his or her region knowing it will bring him extra income.
The more temples the better.

but still an option to tax them or even an option on how harsh to tax would indeed give more dimension, fun and flexibility, like where used with BM.

[Perth]

Re Taxing temples: Makes sense to have this as an option for realms, if they want to tax temples. However, I worry about what this will do to temple funding. This will be a serious drain on temples, requiring them to be visited much more frequently to keep the treasury stocked so they don't fall apart.

Re Taxing SSs: Wut? This makes no sense. The reason the treasury cap was put in place for SSs is because they are not taxed.

Agreed.

[Chenier]

Perhaps the thread should be resplit, for the talk about taxes on religions. It started here as there weren't any other thread, but it's evolving into a full discussion so it should be put apart.





Mod edit: Chenier is right. I have split this thread away from the Veinsormoot thread.

[Galvez]

An option to tax temples is totally fine. And would be a very, very fun political tool.

Agreed. It also does not make sense to tax temples while the Lord will replenish all the taxes he receives from the temple anyway. <-- That also makes the claim that it will prevent using temples as banks invalid. It might even make it easier. The Lord receives funds he will replenish, which adjusts his gold balance, making it easier to make large withdrawals for one person.

But a universal taxation of temples will undermine an already struggling aspect of the game, religion.

Agreed. We should improve the position of religions within Battlemaster, and taxations are counter-productive in my opinion.

[fodder]

Yes and no.
Lords would love to have religions, and especialy rich ones build there temples in his or her region knowing it will bring him extra income.
The more temples the better.

but still an option to tax them or even an option on how harsh to tax would indeed give more dimension, fun and flexibility, like where used with BM.

except they can't build it without him joining that religion in the 1st place. bit stupid for a lord to go around joining different religions just so they can build temples.

[Tom]

Agreed. We should improve the position of religions within Battlemaster, and taxations are counter-productive in my opinion.

Funny how that sounds just like the real world...


To clear up some things:

Secret Societies will not be taxed. I was discussing an idea on IRC about taxation for them, based on the concept that they will likely run some kind of "front" business, so a tax on that - at a much reduced rate - would not be a too horrible idea. But that's an idea, and the current code for the new estate system does not tax Secret Societies.

For religions, I may be talked into making the exact "discount" for religions a value the region lord can choose. Within some limits (i.e. not 100% tax reduction, but maybe between 0% and 90% in 10% increments). But that's definitely on the "post-release enhancements" list.

I find it utterly important to tax religions, because too many people have begun using them as banks. And quite frankly, the other option is to do things with limited treasuries or such. Also, because a couple of rich temples rightfully should give the region lord more gold to play with. And because it creates another source of conflict. The religion elders may want the lord to put all that gold right back into the temple - but instead of a game mechanic, there is now a human being here who could decide that he'd rather not...