General

[Chenier]

...

Marshals don't have the option to contact allied marshals directly, as generals do. As such, when someone wants to know what formation the guys on the other side are using, it generally passes through the general. What is the point of not making him able to answer directly?

This isn't about giving the general the power to decide everything, it's about keeping him in the loop without forcing him to wait for an answer and/or constantly ask the question again.

[De-Legro]

Why should he need a game mechanic to know what the formations are that should be used? Military planning and discussions should already have decided on the "correct" formations for any upcoming battles, the general can just relay those.

[Chenier]

Why should he need a game mechanic to know what the formations are that should be used? Military planning and discussions should already have decided on the "correct" formations for any upcoming battles, the general can just relay those.

Because obviously the general micro-manages all of the army and had to rubber-stamp their formations...?

Unless armies of the realm are fighting together, I rarely see a general involved in deciding the marshal formations, the marshals often decide by themselves without telling it to anyone (because typically it doesn't really matter to anyone else). They can also frequently change.

Maybe when you are a general you like to use all of the authority vested in you to dictate stuff to your marshals as much as possible, but don't assume that is what every general does. In most cases, this would just be helpful information. Much like bankers having the power to see what the tax rates of regions are, which Tom just approved of. It's equivalent in my eyes.

[De-Legro]

Because obviously the general micro-manages all of the army and had to rubber-stamp their formations...?

Unless armies of the realm are fighting together, I rarely see a general involved in deciding the marshal formations, the marshals often decide by themselves without telling it to anyone (because typically it doesn't really matter to anyone else). They can also frequently change.

Maybe when you are a general you like to use all of the authority vested in you to dictate stuff to your marshals as much as possible, but don't assume that is what every general does. In most cases, this would just be helpful information. Much like bankers having the power to see what the tax rates of regions are, which Tom just approved of. It's equivalent in my eyes.

If the armies are not fighting together why would another realms General need to know the formations? Mind you I never said that the general would have dictated the formations used, but that they would have been discussed by whatever military authority your realm uses. If you have a realm that doesn't discuss formations to be used when armies are fighting together, why should a game mechanic cover for this?

[egamma]

If the armies are not fighting together why would another realms General need to know the formations? Mind you I never said that the general would have dictated the formations used, but that they would have been discussed by whatever military authority your realm uses. If you have a realm that doesn't discuss formations to be used when armies are fighting together, why should a game mechanic cover for this?

You're mistaking the feature request. The intent is to let your own general know the formations set by the marshals below him--NOT for another realms' general to know that information.

As for marshal-to-marshal communication between realms, Generals need to learn to use the contact list to send the contact information of their marshal to their counterpart in the allied army, who can then pass it along to his marshal. Then, the allied marshal sends a letter to the original marshal and the circle is complete.

[De-Legro]

You're mistaking the feature request. The intent is to let your own general know the formations set by the marshals below him--NOT for another realms' general to know that information.

As for marshal-to-marshal communication between realms, Generals need to learn to use the contact list to send the contact information of their marshal to their counterpart in the allied army, who can then pass it along to his marshal. Then, the allied marshal sends a letter to the original marshal and the circle is complete.

No I am not. He suggest one reason to need to know this was so general of realm A could advise general of realm B of the formations of realm A. The only reason for this is to further co-operation of the two realms, which if required would suggest that the general, as strategic controller really should already have this !@#$ under control.

[Ramiel]

I thought it was originally so that the General could make sure we Marshals didnt have the "Wrong" settings.... And now it is because he wants to inform other Generals of the Settings...

Both reasons have been shot down rather nicely. 1) there is no "Wrong Setting" and the General can just ask. 2) If you are planning a joint military operation then the "correct" settings should have been discussed beforehand.

Next reason please.

[Gustav Kuriga]

*sighs*

It's only too often when I was general that I would have loved having this ability. Helping people who were new to the position would have been drastically easier. Although, now that I think of it, I've never used the Marshal settings except for fighting monsters.

[Chenier]

I thought it was originally so that the General could make sure we Marshals didnt have the "Wrong" settings.... And now it is because he wants to inform other Generals of the Settings...

Both reasons have been shot down rather nicely. 1) there is no "Wrong Setting" and the General can just ask. 2) If you are planning a joint military operation then the "correct" settings should have been discussed beforehand.

Next reason please.

Dude, I've often seen people say "alright, let's use X formations", and then forget to do so. Don't go saying that they were trying to sabotage the realm, 'cause some of them were OOC acquaintances/friends and I've done it myself. It's a honest mistake, between writing all the messages and looking at the scout reports, changing the standing orders, asking for more scout scout reports, etc., one can forget to go

A marshal can see which of his units have started traveling by looking at their army information page, they are therefore able to remind people to set their movement if they see it is getting late and movement has not been set.

This feature would be helpful in many scenarios. It would be convenient.

Why do you hate this idea so much?

[Ramiel]

Dude, I've often seen people say "alright, let's use X formations", and then forget to do so. Don't go saying that they were trying to sabotage the realm, 'cause some of them were OOC acquaintances/friends and I've done it myself. It's a honest mistake, between writing all the messages and looking at the scout reports, changing the standing orders, asking for more scout scout reports, etc., one can forget to go

A marshal can see which of his units have started traveling by looking at their army information page, they are therefore able to remind people to set their movement if they see it is getting late and movement has not been set.

This feature would be helpful in many scenarios. It would be convenient.

Why do you hate this idea so much?

Maybe I do not hate it but hate the fact that the implication is that we Marshals are not using the 'Correct' Settings or that the people planning a joint military operation will not discuss this during the planning.

Yes a Marshal can see what units are following Orders, the implication is there that the Marshal (Or VM) would be with the Army at all times, whereas a General is not. If memory serves a VM cannot see the Formation Settings either. I do not see why you think the ability for a General to micromanage and to then chastise Marshals is needed.

Indeed the current options pave the way for some interesting and funny scenario's! Why I myself just yesterday forgot a Cardinal Rule when dealing with the Lurian Military - Never give Orders during Weekends (and in my case, never send orders on a weekend after a 48hr period without any reasonable amount of sleep and a load of work). In the morning I will either have killed off at least three Units because some people are around during the weekend... Or I wont have. Either way whats done is done and you just have to pick yourself up and carry on.

Same thing with Formations...

[Zakilevo]

I think people are fighting because some people do not have any experience with being a general. Marshals make mistakes and if nobody but marshal himself knows about the setting, how the hell is the general suppose to fix the problem? Should I just fire the marshal for ruining an important battle for having a different setting with the other two marshals?

[De-Legro]

Dude, I've often seen people say "alright, let's use X formations", and then forget to do so. Don't go saying that they were trying to sabotage the realm, 'cause some of them were OOC acquaintances/friends and I've done it myself. It's a honest mistake, between writing all the messages and looking at the scout reports, changing the standing orders, asking for more scout scout reports, etc., one can forget to go

A marshal can see which of his units have started traveling by looking at their army information page, they are therefore able to remind people to set their movement if they see it is getting late and movement has not been set.

This feature would be helpful in many scenarios. It would be convenient.

Why do you hate this idea so much?

Why stop there? The General might forget to check that the marshals have remembered to set their formations correctly, so probably the entire council needs this feature. While we are at it the knights may have forgotten to set to defensive, better add something so we can check unit settings are all correct as well. Oh and what about when we aren't using marshal formations, I need to ensure everyone has set their lines up correctly.

If you are worried settings may have been forgotten, send a message reminding the marshals to check. Its effectively what you are going to do if this feature was implemented anyway, just you would be targeting your reminders.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Why stop there? The General might forget to check that the marshals have remembered to set their formations correctly, so probably the entire council needs this feature. While we are at it the knights may have forgotten to set to defensive, better add something so we can check unit settings are all correct as well. Oh and what about when we aren't using marshal formations, I need to ensure everyone has set their lines up correctly.

If you are worried settings may have been forgotten, send a message reminding the marshals to check. Its effectively what you are going to do if this feature was implemented anyway, just you would be targeting your reminders.

Now you're just going into hysterics.

[Ramiel]

Now you're just going into hysterics.

Actually I quite agree with De Legro on this one. We could also take it further and apply the same reasoning to every single action in the game... after all, someone might forget to do something, or want to check something, or just feel like knowing something. And since asking is obviously out of the question, lets make sure everyone has the ability to do it!

The way I see it, this whole General thread is a lot like my suggestion that Lords be able to check their Knights estates. Same basic principles and all...

[De-Legro]

I think people are fighting because some people do not have any experience with being a general. Marshals make mistakes and if nobody but marshal himself knows about the setting, how the hell is the general suppose to fix the problem? Should I just fire the marshal for ruining an important battle for having a different setting with the other two marshals?

First the General doesn't control the Marshals, the sponsors of the armies do. 2nd its not your job as a general to FIX these problems. If specific marshal settings are needed, and they have been advised then really what is being able to see if they have set them going to do. You don't have the ability to change the settings, so at best you can send a reminder. Surprise Surprise you can do that anyway. At the end of the day the feature doesn't add a fool proof way to co-ordinate settings. Generals by design are supposed to deal with the strategic part of war, not micro manage the marshals. There is a reason you can neither appoint nor directly punish marshals as a General, because its not your DOMAIN.

Now you're just going into hysterics.

I am highlighting a general trend in request these days, to provide more and more info to check up on people. The fact that you don't have these features means you actually have to communicate with other players, and the realms that communicate best get a slight advantage.