Speculation on the goals of the invaders

[Chenier]

You hardly bothered to help us or DoA when we were in the line of fire, are you really going to piss and moan that we didn't help you when you were in the same boat?

Enweil offered peace, and aid. DoA and Rio refused it. Can't blame Enweil for not helping when its aid was rejected. Indeed, DoA's replies to our offers of aid were along the lines of "Go eat a pike". Also, when the invasion was declared, Enweil rushed a retreat instead of pushing their attack on DoA, where the army was in a real good position. Your alliance decided to jump on the opportunity to ambush our stragglers.

Enweil never wanted to side with the Monsters, and knew that they would fight each other very soon. However, because of the SE's lack of honour (executing despite treaties against it, ambush on the army that was retreating solely because the invasion was declared), it was decided that the monsters would be drawn away from our lands to force the South-East to both contribute in the fight and soak up the initial hit. Had we not, the monsters might have blighted much, much more. Unlike in Enweil, the south-east had many prominent nobles that favored siding with the beasts, since day one.

[Geronus]

Unlike in Enweil, the south-east had many prominent nobles that favored siding with the beasts, since day one.

This is certainly true to an extent, but their power grew in proportion to the threat of the monsters. Had we had more success against them early on, Mordred might have been marginalized, but many nobles saw what the inevitable result of the war would be and collaborated with Mordred because it appeared to be the only alternative to annihilation. You of all people should understand exactly what they were thinking considering you did precisely the same thing with respect to the daimons. Collaboration or annihilation? Clearly you made the right choice, and as a player I have to say that MR did too, not that Evander would *ever* admit that.

HOWEVER, that was the attitude of MR only. Riombara represented resistance throughout the invasion. We were effectively made irrelevant when MR seceded because the regions left to us were mostly destroyed, except for Grehk. We had just lost a battle to Lance IN GREHK. We could have been destroyed at that time except that Lance inexplicably failed to begin a TO for several days which gave us a chance to rally and retake the walls.

We then accepted an offer of cease fire from the monsters because further resistance would have been suicide at the time. We lacked the strength to fight off even one monster commander. The referendum was very close though - it only passed by a single vote. During the cease fire we exploited opportunities to retake regions that were taken over by rogue units and rebuilt our strength. Then, when we were ready, we declared war again and started retaking more regions. This eventually prompted the monsters to return to Riombara in full strength, for which I have yet to hear a 'thank you'. When we voted to do that, we knew we were courting destruction. We had no idea at the time that we would ever be host to a Servant of Light. Gerontius showed up in the nick of time. After that, we holed up in Grehk because the monsters were all over us. There were at least 5 or 6 of their commanders overrunning our countryside. We did make a few forays and defeat a few armies conventionally, but mostly their forces were too powerful for us to attack directly, so we did what we could with the Temple. In the process, we bought Enweil close to a month of respite toward the end of the invasion.

[Chenier]

This is certainly true to an extent, but their power grew in proportion to the threat of the monsters. Had we had more success against them early on, Mordred might have been marginalized, but many nobles saw what the inevitable result of the war would be and collaborated with Mordred because it appeared to be the only alternative to annihilation. You of all people should understand exactly what they were thinking considering you did precisely the same thing with respect to the daimons. Collaboration or annihilation? Clearly you made the right choice, and as a player I have to say that MR did too, not that Evander would *ever* admit that.

HOWEVER, that was the attitude of MR only. Riombara represented resistance throughout the invasion. We were effectively made irrelevant when MR seceded because the regions left to us were mostly destroyed, except for Grehk. We had just lost a battle to Lance IN GREHK. We could have been destroyed at that time except that Lance inexplicably failed to begin a TO for several days which gave us a chance to rally and retake the walls.

We then accepted an offer of cease fire from the monsters because further resistance would have been suicide at the time. We lacked the strength to fight off even one monster commander. The referendum was very close though - it only passed by a single vote. During the cease fire we exploited opportunities to retake regions that were taken over by rogue units and rebuilt our strength. Then, when we were ready, we declared war again and started retaking more regions. This eventually prompted the monsters to return to Riombara in full strength, for which I have yet to hear a 'thank you'. When we voted to do that, we knew we were courting destruction. We had no idea at the time that we would ever be host to a Servant of Light. Gerontius showed up in the nick of time. After that, we holed up in Grehk because the monsters were all over us. There were at least 5 or 6 of their commanders overrunning our countryside. We did make a few forays and defeat a few armies conventionally, but mostly their forces were too powerful for us to attack directly, so we did what we could with the Temple. In the process, we bought Enweil close to a month of respite toward the end of the invasion.

Collaboration with the daimons was not really comparable to that with the monsters. For one, the daimons never threatened us. They also claimed to be well-intended (which we didn't really believe, but it's better than 100% certainty of the contrary, as with the monsters who were the only to never claim to be on anyone's side). Further, the Cult had a small but influential base in Enweil, and long-dating channel of communication with the daimons. As such, asking the daimons for help was as natural to Enweil as asking Riombara for help was for the Dominion of Alluran. It was simply the obvious thing to do.

Sure, they destroyed a ton of realms in the west. But really, that just made us go "kudos to you, we hated these guys anyways, this way they won't backstab us again after the invasion". Their actions in the last invasion wasn't completely forgotten, but the daimons had flattered Enweil's ego enough over time for us to put it aside. (Who else could proclaim to have given the daimons such a beating that they accepted never to return to invade?).

Enweil came into the invasion with a bloated ego, you could say. The monsters insulted Enweil's pride too much for us to ever accept submission, and we were sticking to the path of a glorious death in battle rather than shameful submission. Enweil did not want to die, and did what it could to prevent this, but a ceasefire with the monsters was *never* even mentioned on the council. Not even once in the whole invasion, once the monsters attacked. And that's where Enweil differs from Riombara. Enweil was never willing to submit to the monsters, whereas Riombara was. And Meridian Republic is seen as an extension of Riombara, as they all came from Riombara and the latter never took real action against it, before the end of the invasion, which is seen as not so much a move against MR but more as a move to prevent Enweil from retaking Fwuvoghor. Post-invasion, Riombara looks stronger than ever, having been advantaged by all of the compromises with the monsters they did, while Enweil is still licking its wounds, far from having regained its status as superpower. Bitterness is to be expected. Especially because Enweil shrunk because of one city being taken by Riombara and Ete, one of her most important cities, having been blighted almost as soon as it got TOed.

[Geronus]

Enweil did not want to die, and did what it could to prevent this, but a ceasefire with the monsters was *never* even mentioned on the council. Not even once in the whole invasion, once the monsters attacked. And that's where Enweil differs from Riombara. Enweil was never willing to submit to the monsters, whereas Riombara was. And Meridian Republic is seen as an extension of Riombara, as they all came from Riombara and the latter never took real action against it, before the end of the invasion, which is seen as not so much a move against MR but more as a move to prevent Enweil from retaking Fwuvoghor. Post-invasion, Riombara looks stronger than ever, having been advantaged by all of the compromises with the monsters they did, while Enweil is still licking its wounds, far from having regained its status as superpower. Bitterness is to be expected. Especially because Enweil shrunk because of one city being taken by Riombara and Ete, one of her most important cities, having been blighted almost as soon as it got TOed.

Riombara is probably more democratic than Enweil (which I say because no other realm I have ever seen makes so many important decisions contingent on a referendum of the entire realm). The offer was put to a referendum before the entire realm because that's how Riombara handles major changes to diplomatic relations. For the record, Evander voted against it.

I can certainly understand why you'd see MR as an extension of Riombara, but there was no collaboration between us. We didn't attack them during the invasion (not that we didn't consider it) largely because we were relatively powerless after they seceded. I don't think you understand the straits we found ourselves in. Grehk was at nearly full strength, but every other region we controlled had been completely depopulated. We weren't left with many nobles either. I'm not certain what prompted Telrunya to return his duchy to Riombara, but he did, and D'Este came with him. It could as easily have gone the other way though, with MR attacking Riombara and absorbing it.

[DoctorHarte]

I don't think you understand the straits we found ourselves in. Grehk was at nearly full strength, but every other region we controlled had been completely depopulated.

Oh we knew perfectly how horrible of a situation Riombara was in. When I was Judge and the monsters were up North, Riombara was down to her capital and the monsters left 2k-3k CS monster militia in the regions around the city. Anyways, Enweil sent her armies to save Ripmbara and help destroy the monster militia so they could expand and start to repair the regions for their food. We were all for helping Riombara and in return we had received nothing! Even as the invasion ended we sought to fight off undead and when I was General of Enweil I sought for allied support, but Riombara wouldn't help. They had their  "own monster problem". We saw a few battles, but instead they slowly expand to take all the land they could before Enweil regained her footing. Now that we have solid borders, Riombara is all for helping.

It's obvious what has happened here. Riombara might have been helpless at some points, but in others the realm clearly sought personal benefit versus helping her supposed allies.

[D`Este]

Oh we knew perfectly how horrible of a situation Riombara was in. When I was Judge and the monsters were up North, Riombara was down to her capital and the monsters left 2k-3k CS monster militia in the regions around the city. Anyways, Enweil sent her armies to save Ripmbara and help destroy the monster militia so they could expand and start to repair the regions for their food. We were all for helping Riombara and in return we had received nothing! Even as the invasion ended we sought to fight off undead and when I was General of Enweil I sought for allied support, but Riombara wouldn't help. They had their  "own monster problem". We saw a few battles, but instead they slowly expand to take all the land they could before Enweil regained her footing. Now that we have solid borders, Riombara is all for helping.

It's obvious what has happened here. Riombara might have been helpless at some points, but in others the realm clearly sought personal benefit versus helping her supposed allies.

And that's why in the past months we have seen a decent number of battle reports with Enweil, Riombara vs Undead... please, tell me when you stop believing in your own propaganda and then we can have a normal conversation.

[DoctorHarte]

Oh Riombara has been much, much better in the last few months. I'm just talking about during the invasion.

[Geronus]

Anyways, Enweil sent her armies to save Ripmbara and help destroy the monster militia so they could expand and start to repair the regions for their food. We were all for helping Riombara and in return we had received nothing! Even as the invasion ended we sought to fight off undead and when I was General of Enweil I sought for allied support, but Riombara wouldn't help. They had their  "own monster problem". We saw a few battles, but instead they slowly expand to take all the land they could before Enweil regained her footing. Now that we have solid borders, Riombara is all for helping.

In the immediate aftermath of the invasion, we had the same problems you did. We had regions to retake from MR, our economy was half in shambles, we were dealing with the reintegration of parts of MR and we also had undead all over us, though certainly not to the same extent as Enweil.

The first couple times we tried to help Enweil, undead attacked our own regions and we had to turn back or we were intercepted before we could get there and ended up fighting battles that forced us to turn back for a refit. As for the 'nothing' you received, we got the monsters off your back at the end of the invasion. They spent their last month prior to the coming of the Archons trying to destroy Riombara, and we vaporized a lot of monsters with the Temple.

[Telrunya]

I'm not certain what prompted Telrunya to return his duchy to Riombara, but he did, and D'Este came with him.

Mordred had quickly established his reputation with Khaludh and he was eager to get rid of him. The Monsters however demanded he be made Judge. Being no leader at all, Khaludh never got a good grasp on things in the Meridian Republic and when Mordred rose to power, the Realm was changed more and more as a new Republic of Fwuvoghor (That actually started right off the beginning), which Khaludh and some others were not happy about at all. Hence Khaludh remained in Rines, giving only minimal aid to the Meridian Republic and working on his own City to ensure it could handle attacks (And Khaludh went overboard with that as he does more often). Once the Invasion ended and Riombara survived, Khaludh was all too eager to return to Riombara and ensure the 'twisted' remains of the Realm that still called itself the Meridian Republic were wiped off the map forever. I believe D'Este concluded there was no point in staying with MR and rejoined Riombara, having better odds of survival there.

[D`Este]

. I believe D'Este concluded there was no point in staying with MR and rejoined Riombara, having better odds of survival there.

Mordred was slightly to eager to create MR, as it was originally planned to allow a part of Riombara (MR) to sign a peace treaty with the monsters and thus allow survival. After we "defeated" the first wave of the monsters things looked slightly brighter and Ercole wanted to try to work something out for Riombara as whole. Mordred however continued with the plan to form MR and Khaludh seceded while Ercole/Athol stayed part of Riombara. A few weeks later in the invasion things looked rather grim for Riombara and there was no way Athol Margos could be defended against any assault, only way to keep the city out of immediate danger and to keep feeding it was to join MR. After the invasion Mordred's way to dealing with things (telling half the truth/manipulating, etc) made Ercole contact Khaludh, after which Riombara was contacted and the duchies returned. And yes, large part of Ercole's actions are driven to ensure the survival of Athol, the city actually grew a lot during the invasion..

[Chenier]

Riombara is probably more democratic than Enweil (which I say because no other realm I have ever seen makes so many important decisions contingent on a referendum of the entire realm). The offer was put to a referendum before the entire realm because that's how Riombara handles major changes to diplomatic relations. For the record, Evander voted against it.

I can certainly understand why you'd see MR as an extension of Riombara, but there was no collaboration between us. We didn't attack them during the invasion (not that we didn't consider it) largely because we were relatively powerless after they seceded. I don't think you understand the straits we found ourselves in. Grehk was at nearly full strength, but every other region we controlled had been completely depopulated. We weren't left with many nobles either. I'm not certain what prompted Telrunya to return his duchy to Riombara, but he did, and D'Este came with him. It could as easily have gone the other way though, with MR attacking Riombara and absorbing it.

I *understand* it.

It all runs down to principles and emotions, though. As I said, *reason* was an important factor in Riombara's decisions, while *pride* was what fueled Enweil. Enweil lost many nobles left and right during the part of the invasion when death was enabled, and nobody else came even close to losing as many nobles. We had it better when it came to regions and actually maintaining the realm alive, but no other realm suffered the human costs Enweil did. It's therefore normal that resentment be felt for those who compromise or capitulate after suffering "less", especially when truces meant increased pressure on Enweil for their durations.

[Chenier]

And that's why in the past months we have seen a decent number of battle reports with Enweil, Riombara vs Undead... please, tell me when you stop believing in your own propaganda and then we can have a normal conversation.

It's all relative.

And looking at the stats page, I'd assume most of your battles involve Enweil. Most of ours do not involve Riombara. You are pretty well-off with your backs to the sea, while we have rogues come out of the blight incessantly.