autoban for switching sides in war

[vonGenf]

Why? What happens then if the judge position is vacant? If he gets stabbed right after and remains wounded for a week? If it coincides with him going inactive?

I see nothing wrong with a Duke paying for the Judge's stabbing prior to his secession to avoid these kind of problems and make his secession easier. That's shrewd thinking.

As for inactivity.... it will always happen, and it should not matter. Think of the character, not of the player.

[Jens Namtrah]

I have no issues with giving the judge a 3-day option to ban; I suggested "auto ban" because it is how it happens to advies so the code already exists, and I didn't think there would be any real issues with it.

as for the other arguments, I think you are mixing up game mechanics with IG reality too much. The bans that can be levied against "criminals" is set up that way to provide some balance in the game.

if you prefer a 3-day max period so the defector has a chance to plot some scheme to avoid the ban, I'm all for it.

[Anaris]

Instead of a Auto Ban, would it not be possible to code in a special case for these actions, that lets the Judge Ban the oath breaker even once they have left the realm. Say give the Judge 5 days in which to use this feature before the option is removed. Without seeing the code I would guess it would be more work, but I've always disliked Auto Bans, to me they conflict with the decision making process of the Judge.

Certainly, it would be possible.

But the autoban code is already in place, and I can't see any compelling reason to go to the extra work of doing what you suggest at this point when it would, in practical terms, provide exactly the same thing.

[Kain]

I actually think we need to consider the player level too for these things. For as we know, not all realms were born equal. I remember it being a real hassle before when autobans were given to anyone leaving except if it was to an allied realm.

For if you join another realm, then you risk getting executed later and the only reason you might have left is because you as the player thought the first realm was boring.

The character himself wouldn't have left but the fun of the game must take precedence sometimes.

[Jens Namtrah]

For if you join another realm, then you risk getting executed later and the only reason you might have left is because you as the player thought the first realm was boring.

I thought about that part, but leaving your realm does not equal leaving your realm to go to the enemy. plenty of options if your realm is boring

[Kain]

I thought about that part, but leaving your realm does not equal leaving your realm to go to the enemy. plenty of options if your realm is boring

No that is true, and it makes it okey with autoban if you go to an enemy realm, but I rather not have it like before where you got it for neutral and peace aswell.

[Chenier]

Only if the ban took instant effect, which currently is only the case with bans administered from prison. It is completely possible to treat banning an enemy infiltrator the same as banning one of your own nobles and grant a 3 day grace, and to be honest, there is nothing unfair about a infiltrator getting banned behind enemy lines at all, it is a risky class, it would just be an added risk.

An extremely important risk. Because even if that ban takes 3 days to take effect, what happens if you get captured on the next day? 2 days later, you are banned and still in their dungeons. Execution is therefore possible.

I see nothing wrong with a Duke paying for the Judge's stabbing prior to his secession to avoid these kind of problems and make his secession easier. That's shrewd thinking.

As for inactivity.... it will always happen, and it should not matter. Think of the character, not of the player.

It should indeed not matter: he should be banned regardless. Nothing is stopping the duke from bribing the judge to remove the ban afterwards.

Certainly, it would be possible.

But the autoban code is already in place, and I can't see any compelling reason to go to the extra work of doing what you suggest at this point when it would, in practical terms, provide exactly the same thing.

Especially since, by the time they switch allegiance, they will already be in safe territory. The 3 days grace for when you ban someone in your realm is to allow that person to escape immediate capture, the way I see it.

No that is true, and it makes it okey with autoban if you go to an enemy realm, but I rather not have it like before where you got it for neutral and peace aswell.

Why not? I certainly didn't let that stop me when I was new to the game. I got a ton of bans and changed realms a ton of times until I got comfortable anywhere. Odds are, if you didn't piss everyone off, the worse you face if you get captured in battle two years later by that same realm is deportation. Executions cost a lot of h/p, judges typically only do them if you've deserved it.

[vonGenf]

It should indeed not matter: he should be banned regardless. Nothing is stopping the duke from bribing the judge to remove the ban afterwards.

What I meant is that there are plenty of things in the game that require the Judge to press a button. He may not be pressing it because he truly doesn't want to, because he's lazy, or because he's inactive. It doesn't matter.

Or would you also want an auto-execute code for banned prisoners, just in case the Judge happen to be inactive?

[Draco Tanos]

Would it be better to give the Judge the ability to ban anyone at anytime, but just make it so he has to push a button first?  It's the only way to be truly fair.  And realistic in regards to arch-traitors who truly hurt the realm but manage to escape being banished by the Judge due to poor mechanics.

Or would you rather stick with the auto-ban idea? :)

[Chenier]

Or would you also want an auto-execute code for banned prisoners, just in case the Judge happen to be inactive?

It's not the same thing at all. If you miss an opportunity to execute someone, you will still be able to execute him next time he get captured.

However, if you miss your opportunity to ban someone, you will *never* get that opportunity again unless he does illegal things in your realm and gets caught because of it.

[De-Legro]

It's not the same thing at all. If you miss an opportunity to execute someone, you will still be able to execute him next time he get captured.

However, if you miss your opportunity to ban someone, you will *never* get that opportunity again unless he does illegal things in your realm and gets caught because of it.

So all banable offenses need to be reworked for auto banning then. Cause it would totally suck if you missed the chance to ban that infiltrator, and then they changed class. Yeah missing the chance to ban someone would totally ruin everything.

[Chenier]

So all banable offenses need to be reworked for auto banning then. Cause it would totally suck if you missed the chance to ban that infiltrator, and then they changed class. Yeah missing the chance to ban someone would totally ruin everything.

Uhm, no. The amount of damage caused by an infiltrator is nowhere near comparable to the damage that a duke can do by switching allegiance to the enemy. If he stops being an infiltrator, then who cares, as the point of being able to ban him is so that he can't continue operating in your lands forever without limit. If he continues being one, then you'll get a chance next time he gets captured.

The system, when autobans were present, was perfectly balanced imo.

[Indirik]

Personally, I'd prefer a system where the judge was given an option to place the ban within, say, a two or three day window, rather than for the ban itself to be automatic. Put the onus on the players to take action, rather than allow the players to sit back idly and let the game do it for them. An autoban by a faceless bureaucrat does not provide any option for interaction or personal choice. Having the judge actually place the ban puts a personal name on that ban. And having a judge refuse to place the ban forces the judge to step up and weather the storm.

And if there happens to be no judge during that time, or the judge is wounded? Too bad for you. Just like it's too bad for you if your judge is wounded and that infil escapes before he can be banned/executed. Deal with it and move on.

If autobans are put back in, I'd think they would be appropriate only for war/hatred relations. If they get expanded any farther, it should be all the way, for every realm change.

[Kain]

Why not? I certainly didn't let that stop me when I was new to the game. I got a ton of bans and changed realms a ton of times until I got comfortable anywhere. Odds are, if you didn't piss everyone off, the worse you face if you get captured in battle two years later by that same realm is deportation. Executions cost a lot of h/p, judges typically only do them if you've deserved it.

I hate to break it to you Chenier but not everyone reasons like you do ;) I personally thought bans were awful so when I didn't like it somewhere I deleted the chars or emmigrated to another island. I see on my family history that it took me 7 months before I actually changed realms within the same island, and I believe I wasn't autobanned then because I went to an ally.

If you're new and you hear you can die after you've been banned, I think you'll do well to shy away from it. I would call it rational anyway.

Then as you become experienced, you learn how things work and you learn which rules to bend or break.

[Chenier]

I hate to break it to you Chenier but not everyone reasons like you do ;) I personally thought bans were awful so when I didn't like it somewhere I deleted the chars or emmigrated to another island. I see on my family history that it took me 7 months before I actually changed realms within the same island, and I believe I wasn't autobanned then because I went to an ally.

If you're new and you hear you can die after you've been banned, I think you'll do well to shy away from it. I would call it rational anyway.

Then as you become experienced, you learn how things work and you learn which rules to bend or break.

My logic was always "well, I just won't go back to these lands then, good riddance!"  8)