Sanguis Astroism

[pcw27]

But she can only lose on terms Justin created for her. The RP bone she's thrown you doesn't make things better it makes things worse.

We'll play your stupid game because the alternative is throwing away years of RP work, but stop being all "why are you all mad at me what did I do?"

[Chenier]

But Jonsu is willing to step down if she loses.      That is what is happening here.

If she loses to you, which is utterly stupid. And so she says. We only have his word on that. Which, given what he just did, is worth absolutely nothing to me.

[OFaolain]

One "bright side" to this is that now we have a schism but all the schismatic individuals are still part of our message boards.  I mean I'm going to play on; I don't like what happened (at all., period intentional), but I'm willing to work with it.  I would strongly suggest giving it a few days

The problem I think a lot of people are having (myself to a lesser extent included) is that this new RP is essentially forced on us; we were not given a choice whether we wanted to RP this schism with power in other people's hands and it looks a lot like the resources and hard work of other people just got hijacked (because they did).  If you all are willing, as players, to let a real and actual power struggle ensue with different factions without booting malcontents from the church then I am willing to work with you.  I am willing to have my character say "I belong to Cephas, or I belong to Apollonius, or I belong to Paul".  But there has to be a *lot* of flexibility to allow for the rise of various factions (faction of Jonsu, faction of Alaster, faction of Constantine, etc.) that is not supported by the game.

I would suggest using any unused ranks that may exist to create a Knight of Jonsu & Knight of Alaster (etc.) rank for those of us who choose to support one of the new "prophets".  Hell, even a Knight of Mathurin rank would work out for those who refuse to recognize them.

And Chenier: if you don't trust Justin and Dustin then who do you trust to administer this whole debacle?  Because unfortunately it's not going away and things aren't going back to the way they were as much as any of us wish they would.

[Stabbity]

OFaolain, I appreciate your willingness to work with it, and I hope I can make this enjoyable for everyone. Yes, you are right, the situation was forced on you. However, if this was purely a game of mutual cooperation where nothing happened without consent from both sides, nothing would ever happen. Yes, Jonsu just usurped a position, but this is a game about politics, and the occasional usurper will arise from time to time. Maybe not in this fashion, as it is extremely unique, but it will happen. I also recognize the inherent failures in the game mechanics (I hope this helps speed along the schism mechanic and some religious retooling for example), and am working towards a solution I hope everyone will find mutually enjoyable.

In fact, your faction suggestion is exactly what dustole and I are working to implement. I rushed ahead last night with promoting him, because I trust Dustole as a player, and frankly, I trust him as a great counter to any personal bias I might carry. Any suggestions on how to improve the overall experience are most welcome.

I have acquired 22 trust medals since they were incorporated, and 21 fun medals, and as a player, I have a great love for battlemaster, have played it for over 10 years, and hope to continue, and hope everyone continues. I trust myself, when paired with someone whose bias is damn near polar opposite of mine, to be fair when in the execution of what is to come.

No one will be booted from the faith (unless they are actively attacking the infrastructure of the faith) from now on. Anyone who becomes an Anti-Regent who attempts to boot people who are not actively attacking the infrastructure of the faith, however, will be booted from Anti-Regent status, and will not be given a second chance. I see no reason why we cannot be gentlemanly about this.

[Zakilevo]

See? Everything will be fine. you are always bound to upset some people when you go against the status quo.

I think this event will make Dwilight more interesting.

[Stabbity]

I certainly hope so.

To clear up any misconception about what is happening:

This is NOT Jonsu vs Alaster and everyone else can either join or watch. Get involved. Form your own faction, its why we set up the Anti-Regent rank. The Maddening is superior right now people, act like it.

[Vellos]

And why would my character want to be an anti-regent?

What Jonsu and Enoch (and now Alaster) did was supposed to be impossible in SA's Charter. There is a way you become Regent; Jonus (and Alaster) is NOT the Regent. She became it by doing a thing which is physically impossible.

Yes, mechanics trump RP. You played a trump card. You won. Congrats. You won BM. You did the thing we all agree can't be done; don't be surprised so many other people are pissed: because BM isn't like Diplomacy or Risk because you're not supposed to be able to win.

[Stabbity]

And why would my character want to be an anti-regent?

What Jonsu and Enoch (and now Alaster) did was supposed to be impossible in SA's Charter. There is a way you become Regent; Jonus (and Alaster) is NOT the Regent. She became it by doing a thing which is physically impossible.

Yes, mechanics trump RP. You played a trump card. You won. Congrats. You won BM. You did the thing we all agree can't be done; don't be surprised so many other people are pissed: because BM isn't like Diplomacy or Risk because you're not supposed to be able to win.

Have I won? I hardly think so. Forget your damn charter, and remember that words are only as strong as the pieces of paper they're written on. You want to oust Jonsu? You can do it, but you'll need steel, or some very creative words.

[pcw27]

Here's the only way I see to make this work.

You want to represent the church is divided, sure whatever, but don't make some stupid contest out of it with rules you created or worse no rules beyond your subjective opinion of the situation. Protestants and Catholics have existed for centuries, no one ever won, neither side ever conceded. If faction A has one priest and one realm backing them, fine, let them stay faction A.

Admit to everyone that you powergamed, and then promise there will be no further power gaming. Don't hide behind any more game mechanics to make yourself untouchable. Put yourself at risk. Venture into enemy territory including the territory of enemies who have banned you. Push your realm leader around to the point where they might just ban you as well. Join underground movements. Accept duel offers. Don't give us any of that "but I worked so hard, I planned this for years" crap. A lot of things we'd been planning for years have gone down the tubes. I play a hero character, every time I go into battle there's a chance I'll die and whatever I've been working on will come to not.

You can't just us RP to simulate a mechanic that doesn't exist with rules you've come up with and expect good results.

[Zakilevo]

Why would he do that?

He played his cards right and he became the regent. You guys just got outplayed. Time to type gg and admit the fact you got outplayed and play by his rule. 

[Vellos]

Why would he do that?

He played his cards right and he became the regent. You guys just got outplayed. Time to type gg and admit the fact you got outplayed and play by his rule. 

Thank you for making my point EXACTLY.

And that's why I've stopped playing. That. EXACTLY that.

[Zakilevo]

lol You stopped playing because he outplayed you? yikes.

[pcw27]

Why would he do that?

He played his cards right and he became the regent. You guys just got outplayed. Time to type gg and admit the fact you got outplayed and play by his rule. 

He won by exploiting a flawed mechanic. This coup makes no sense in character. There's no logical way this would ever happen in any world real or fantasy that had anything remotely resembling rules of said reality.

[sharkattack]

I agree Lapallanch, also same old story, player Kingdoms/Religions fall and they just rage and quit the game.

[Stabbity]

Here's the only way I see to make this work.

You want to represent the church is divided, sure whatever, but don't make some stupid contest out of it with rules you created or worse no rules beyond your subjective opinion of the situation. Protestants and Catholics have existed for centuries, no one ever won, neither side ever conceded. If faction A has one priest and one realm backing them, fine, let them stay faction A.

Admit to everyone that you powergamed, and then promise there will be no further power gaming. Don't hide behind any more game mechanics to make yourself untouchable. Put yourself at risk. Venture into enemy territory including the territory of enemies who have banned you. Push your realm leader around to the point where they might just ban you as well. Join underground movements. Accept duel offers. Don't give us any of that "but I worked so hard, I planned this for years" crap. A lot of things we'd been planning for years have gone down the tubes. I play a hero character, every time I go into battle there's a chance I'll die and whatever I've been working on will come to not.

You can't just us RP to simulate a mechanic that doesn't exist with rules you've come up with and expect good results.

I didn't power game. If I was powergaming and looking simply to win, I would not have taken the Church. I did it because it was in character for Jonsu. I'm not going to suddenly admit to doing something because you think I did it, and because you don't like what happened. I'm offering recourse, but my patience for it is wearing very thin for it. I am also not going to suddenly start throwing Jonsu into suicidal actions because you want her dead. She has been playing a very deliberate and patient game for a very long time now, and it bore some very unexpected fruit, and I'm not just going to throw it away. Yes, there is a chance the faith will splinter, and that years of war will inevitably end inconclusively. The protestant reform did not happen in the middle ages, it did not occur until 1517. This is more of an anti-pope situation, and some of those wars lasted a very long time.

Is this battlemaster, or sit-back-and-whine-master?

The gauntlet is thrown. Pick it up, or leave it.