Sanguis Astroism

[Bronnen]

I did delete Rabisu not too long after.  But the RP should have come before is what I'm saying, not afterward.

Agreed!

[Penchant]

pcw27, I have two questions for you:

Why do you keep arguing about this? What do you want to have happen as a result of your arguing?

[pcw27]

pcw27, I have two questions for you:

Why do you keep arguing about this? What do you want to have happen as a result of your arguing?

Why are you singling me out? Other people are still arguing too.

I suppose the most important thing is I want the dev team to acknowledge that the mechanics for religions need work so this sort of takeover is more difficult and the other members of the religion have some way to fight back. Some have agreed to this point and claim they're working on it but others don't seem convinced.

Of course you do, all leave the religion at the very simplest. At the more complex you refound it. Palatable options, perhaps not. Options for recourse yes indeed they are.

That's not much of a recourse and it shouldn't be necessary. There's no reason one person should be able to control all the temples of the religion if every single other noble of the church is in opposition to them.

Realms have a bunch of safe guards against this sort of mad ruler scenario and many ways to fight back. SA has become a larger institution then any realm the game's ever had. If religions have that kind of potential they need more checks and balances in their mechanics.

[dustole]

Doesn't it say somewhere on the sign up page that BM is in beta testing? 

Pat,  the devs have already said that.  You must have missed it..


There are changes on the board for religions, but we all know things get changed slowly.  That is just how it it's and little can be done to change it.    It's probably gonna be quite a while before the changed you want to take place.  Long enough that it will have no meaning whatsoever on these current events. 

If you want recourse in game you are going to have to find it yourself.

[Indirik]

A religion with no elder priests will begin to collapse. It wouldn't take long, either.

I thought that was just "A religion with no priests", and that the elder priest thing just determined whether or not more non-priests could be made elders.

[Anaris]

I thought that was just "A religion with no priests", and that the elder priest thing just determined whether or not more non-priests could be made elders.

Nope. A religion must at all times have at least one elder priest, and if there are fewer priests than non-priests in the elder ranks, non-priests cannot be promoted to elders.

[Indirik]

I suppose the most important thing is I want the dev team to acknowledge that the mechanics for religions need work so this sort of takeover is more difficult and the other members of the religion have some way to fight back. Some have agreed to this point and claim they're working on it but others don't seem convinced.

I'll say it: The game mechanics for religions need work. Religions are guilds, as far as game mechanics are concerned. Guild structures were never intended to hold the kind of power that large religions can amass. Large religions concentrate large amounts of power. Large amounts of power make for lots of fun. If we want large religions, and the concentrations of power and fun that they enable, then religious structures will have to be modified to account for the kind of power that can be amassed in them.

My personal opinion: what happened in this case was not an abuse or cheating. It was a legal use of the game mechanics. However, I think that the game mechanics need to be adjusted to prevent something similar from re-occurring in the future.

SA has become a larger institution then any realm the game's ever had.

This is not correct. I can think of three realms off-hand that have been larger than SA ever was.

[Bael]

My personal opinion: what happened in this case was not an abuse or cheating. It was a legal use of the game mechanics. However, I think that the game mechanics need to be adjusted to prevent something similar from re-occurring in the future.

Yep. To my mind, a legal loophole.

[Charles]

Just out of curiosity, would it be cheating for someone to contact the player of the founder of the religion to get him to restart that character for the purpose booting Jonsu?  Or has that been covered already?

[dustole]

Just out of curiosity, would it be cheating for someone to contact the player of the founder of the religion to get him to restart that character for the purpose booting Jonsu?  Or has that been covered already?

I think his account auto deleted.   If someone could get ahold.of him it would simplify things

[Qyasogk]

Reading all this, it occurs to me that the simplest way of addressing the situation with the minimal amount of code change would be adding a requirement that a person who has achieved a senior rank or higher cannot be removed/demoted from their office without a vote of the elders. At which point the accused would have an opportunity to plead their case.

If a vote is required to excommunicate someone from a religion, then a vote should also be required to reinstate them.

I would also suggest that a regent should not be able to make someone a prophet (or another regent) by themselves, that should be voted on by the elders as well.

This seems like simple common sense stuff to me. Comments?

[Indirik]

Reading all this, it occurs to me that the simplest way of addressing the situation with the minimal amount of code change would be adding a requirement that a person who has achieved a senior rank or higher cannot be removed/demoted from their office without a vote of the elders. At which point the accused would have an opportunity to plead their case.

If a vote is required to excommunicate someone from a religion, then a vote should also be required to reinstate them.

I would also suggest that a regent should not be able to make someone a prophet (or another regent) by themselves, that should be voted on by the elders as well.

This seems like simple common sense stuff to me. Comments?

All of this stuff is dependent on the religion in question, and how they want to run things. Hardcoding this stuff is needlessly restrictive on those that don't want it. But for those that do want it, some of this stuff should be available.

[Indirik]

I think his account auto deleted.

Rick Cronan, of the Hossenfeffer family, right? No such account exists anymore. :(

[pcw27]

Nope. A religion must at all times have at least one elder priest, and if there are fewer priests than non-priests in the elder ranks, non-priests cannot be promoted to elders.

What would happen if there was a single elder who was a non priest?

[dustole]

What would happen if there was a single elder who was a non priest?

If my memory is good,  then every temple would drop 1 level every day until there were no more temples and the religion would then cease to exist.   In Sanguis Astroism's case Springdale is the largest temple in the world.   Level 11.    At the point that SA had zero elder priests there would be an 11 day countdown to the destruction of SA.   1 Temple level every day until there are no more temples and then its game over. 

That could be stopped at any point that there is a priest promoted to the Elders. 

Can anyone confirm that?