Sanguis Astroism

[Chenier]

I'd say that has already been achieved. SA was bloated by so many people who didn't care about SA, that it was made hollow and teethless.

The realms that band together now do so for political reasons, not religious ones. Point in case, Morek just signed a ceasefire with Asylon.

SA is already practically everywhere, that there's no point in trying to spread it further. The more an organization grows big, the costlier it ends up being trying to expand it further. SA has reached that point. There's nothing left to federate SA against anymore. Not with all of the loose elements within that would not care to bring it back together.

[Indirik]

I'd say that has already been achieved. SA was bloated by so many people who didn't care about SA, that it was made hollow and teethless.

This.

SA was so successful that it was, effectively, the only game around. No other religions could compete. Everyone who was anyone joined. Then you had the problem that *all* the realms on the War Island ran into: Too many alphas trying to run things, and no betas to follow. SA became nothing more than a huge political machine filled with people who couldn't stand each other. Even when it was lead by people that had a genuine interest in running it as a religion with religious interests at the forefront, too many people were in the peanut gallery hollering about all the politics that were running things. It doesn't matter if it was true or imagined, or just blatant fabrication.

When you get any big enough group of people together, someone will be dissatisfied. Even if it's just dissatisfaction that *they* aren't in charge. They start screaming about the tyranny and injustice of the leadership, and they attract fellow conspiracy theorists and troublemakers. Eventually the organization disintegrates. That's pretty much what happened to SA. Success killed it.

[Glaumring the Fox]

And thats a good thing because now there is competing interests and religions to drive conflict. If Asylon hadnt of been pushed out of the west we were going to go very aggressive on the religion bit. Now that we are smashed to pieces we are focusing on rebuilding. Our religion went from a growing entity to a handful of tepid temples and no direction. The monster invasion ruined all of our plans to be an actual force against SA. I guess we'll build up again for a few years and when we are big enough to threaten SA the devs will smash us again.

[Indirik]

Indeed. All of those devs who don't even have characters who are part of SA are so heavily invested in propping SA up that we're willing to run game-wide events that disrupt the political situation on every island in the game, completely toss aside the last tatters of our integrity, and SMITE ASYLON TO THE STONE AGES, as part of a personal quest to single out *you* and ruin all your fun.

Srsly...

You have problems.

[Glaumring the Fox]

It was a fun jab  8)


That being said, we're still kicking and in 5 real life years will be ready to bring the fight back to you.

[Chenier]

SA is already defeated. You just didn't get the glory of doing it yourself.

It has no purpose, no direction, no cohesion. Ask 90% of astroists about:

Asylon: meh
Ecclesiastal astroism: meh
Internal reforms: meh

There is no competing religions. And that's not because there's a single overwhelming religion, but because there are none. You can't "compete" with an entity that does not strive to achieve anything.

The forces against Asylon and its cultists are not religious ones.

You keep acting as if you are some underdog out to fight some evil hegemony, but neither of these have been true for a great number of years.

[Eldargard]

That's not really a good argument. If all the realms are SA, then in all likelihood what would happen is that all the realms would team up against the first realm to attack another SA realm.

I disagree. In many cases this may be how things end up but that is also true when huge religious blocks are not a factor at all. At the same time realms will also be thinking about what side would benefit them most politically. Sometimes it pays to be the aggressor or on the aggressor's side.

[Eldargard]

I must say that SA's apparent fall saddens me a bit. Though I never much cared for the religion as a player I have been eagerly awaiting their day of dominance. Now that they are so close it just sucks that things seem to be falling apart.

At the same time I do not really agree that SA managed to be come THE religion of Dwilight. At not from the little I have seen so far. I also am not convinced that SA is done for. New life might find it's way in and SA may yet be revived!

In the mean time, I will just watch and see!

[Anaris]

I disagree. In many cases this may be how things end up but that is also true when huge religious blocks are not a factor at all. At the same time realms will also be thinking about what side would benefit them most politically. Sometimes it pays to be the aggressor or on the aggressor's side.

No, it pretty much just pays to be the biggest gorilla or on the biggest gorilla's side.

[Eldargard]

No, it pretty much just pays to be the biggest gorilla or on the biggest gorilla's side.

That all comes down to what wants to be paid. If it is winning the war, you are probably right but not everyone is looking for payment in that form!

[Glaumring the Fox]

SA is already defeated. You just didn't get the glory of doing it yourself.

It has no purpose, no direction, no cohesion. Ask 90% of astroists about:

Asylon: meh
Ecclesiastal astroism: meh
Internal reforms: meh

There is no competing religions. And that's not because there's a single overwhelming religion, but because there are none. You can't "compete" with an entity that does not strive to achieve anything.

The forces against Asylon and its cultists are not religious ones.

You keep acting as if you are some underdog out to fight some evil hegemony, but neither of these have been true for a great number of years.

Ummm... We are the underdogs again btw. Whatever few months of meager dominance we had in our one siccessfullish war against Astrum after innumerable defeats is gone, Asylon is the underdog. If you havent noticed our kingdom is spread out wider than D'Hara, our army was smashed at Unterstrom, our noble count has been way down compared to months ago. Yup sorry nice try but Astrum and Morek , D'Hara, Fissoa and Luria didnt suffer a bit in the invasion. Barca and Asylon are lucky to be alive, but to say that we arent the underdog is silly, we had a military victory against Astrum, a growing faith, we were going to be the next big thing in north western Dwilight with lots of plans and RP and thats smashed to pieces. Our faith doesnt even have a temple large enough for me to reconvert to priest and you talk about SA being dead... lol hilarious way to take the heat off but SA is positively thriving compared to what happened to us so give me a break with your belly aching.

[Graeth]

Nearly every ruler of Asylon was an Astroist.  It doesn't matter whether you are in the religion or not.  If you don't follow the crowd you either get ignored or dismissed.  IMO it was much more fun developing a new religion and all the freedom that came along with it.  General disinterest in Dwilight post Jonsu/Blight is what is killing SA.  I don't see any messages to full members except when the private election announcements are made (the brief bit about a harem notwithstanding).

[Chenier]

Ummm... We are the underdogs again btw. Whatever few months of meager dominance we had in our one siccessfullish war against Astrum after innumerable defeats is gone, Asylon is the underdog. If you havent noticed our kingdom is spread out wider than D'Hara, our army was smashed at Unterstrom, our noble count has been way down compared to months ago. Yup sorry nice try but Astrum and Morek , D'Hara, Fissoa and Luria didnt suffer a bit in the invasion. Barca and Asylon are lucky to be alive, but to say that we arent the underdog is silly, we had a military victory against Astrum, a growing faith, we were going to be the next big thing in north western Dwilight with lots of plans and RP and thats smashed to pieces. Our faith doesnt even have a temple large enough for me to reconvert to priest and you talk about SA being dead... lol hilarious way to take the heat off but SA is positively thriving compared to what happened to us so give me a break with your belly aching.

Yea, right. Didn't suffer. Paisly, Paisland, Maeotis, Larur, Chesland, Chesney, Odona... That's all junk regions. D'Hara didn't need them. Obviously didn't give us anything. Never mind that for most of D'Hara's history, more than half of its economy was based on the western continent. That the realm's culture was based on the western continent.

Asylon had not been an underdog for years. The invasion displaced you, sure. So now you don't have much land. And you may not make it. But that's just the hand you were dealt. Asylon lived for a long time as an unstable and unfriendly hegemony.

Almost all of the things you've criticized SA for over the last few years have been way more applicable to Asylon than the SA block. SA has not been imperialistic since the early days of Dwilight. Your cult may have shrunk in territory, but it's looking to expand. SA isn't. It's stale and degenerating. It doesn't care to expand, nor even maintain itself. There would be plenty of reasons to call Asylon and its Cult evil and to try to wipe them out. That's not being done. There would be plenty of reasons to take offense at another church declaring itself to be a more proper form of astroism. That's not being done. There would be the option of seeking to spread the faith to the last corners it has never really reached, Fissoa and Barca, but still no collective interest in doing so.

Anaris talks about a gorilla. If SA is a gorilla, then it's an elderly one. With brittle bones, shortness of breath, and a variety of diseases. Sure, from afar, it's a freaking gorilla, it's imposing. But size doesn't make might on its own. SA is big, but weak.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Well if SA is dying its because many of you killed it by driving out anyone who was motivated to cause drama and RP potential. Instead of running with some weird ideas and making the church more maleable as a RP narrative many of you set its trajectory in stone by having the entire RP narrative set im stone since day one and anyone who tried to add to it was driven out with heresy charges or other phobic type ideas that bled everyone out. Thankfully Asylon has welcomed every trouble maker from Dwilight into our kingdom to spice things up.

[Chenier]

If SA was as exclusive as you describe it, it wouldn't be so big.

On the contrary, it's problem lies with the fact that it is bloated with people who, at best, don't want to see it mingling in their lives and, at worst, actively seeking to bring it down. There's nothing to federate everyone together, because you just can't find enough dedicated people anymore. Enoch and Jonsu, with their crap, succeeded in dissolving what little was left of that cohesion. They dissolved the core that was left. The council used to at least represent the Church, but it is now stuck with a structure and leaders placed by the heretics.

And by being bloated as such, there's no opportunity for zeal or piousness. It's already at the top, there's nowhere else to go but down. And as such, even should there be a few people who truly want to dedicate themselves to the church, they would have a hard time proving any of it to anyone.

Those who stroke the killing blow did not care for "drama and RP". And fun does not limit itself to destroying what others have built.