Sanguis Astroism

[Penchant]

I think what would be more interesting is if some other religions joined the bandwagon in support. After all, the resolution declares open preaching for all priests in all lands, not just SA priests. This could, if handled properly by the right people, be a religious first in BattleMaster.

Actually it doesn't really allow priests to preach anywhere because after when of the consul's complained Busto said that theocracies don't have to let other priests preach in their lands so if that's true then SA priests get to preach as they please but theocracies don't so its really just a SA saying we get to preach  where ever we want regardless of what any realm says. Allison even said any realm caught arresting a SA priest she will declare war on and that if the entire south rebel's she doesn't care since she believes SA will win.

[dustole]

Quite honestly, yes. Allison constantly tells everyone that she has the voting support to do whatever she wants, because she knows that certain people, like Gustav, will vote however she tells them to vote.

I don't have the voting support to do whatever I want.  I don't have 2/3rds majority.  I can with the right persuasion block just about any vote I don't like though...

[Gustav Kuriga]

Besides, Gustav is getting a bit annoyed...

[Penchant]

Besides, Gustav is getting a bit annoyed...

Good because I really hope the elders dont support this. I and I hope many others will leave if the amendment is not repealed. Allison is trying to say the church has power over not only members of the church but the entire island by saying no realm may deny the preaching of SA regardless of their laws must obey SA or be destroyed. So it seems a crusade against SA or maybe just a war against Kabrinskia could definently happen if Allison holds true to what she said of any realm found arresting an SA priest will be declared war on them. I have also heard some theocracy ruler's say they are fine with saying SA may preach anywhere while others may not preach in the theocracies thus the possibility of a crusade against SA not only war against Kabrinskia.

[Indirik]

Then Gustav should show it by doing something to indicate he's not really Allison's lapdog.

As for a 2/3rds vote, dustole, all you need 2/3rds of the people who /actually/ vote, right? ;)

And as for preaching, any theocratic ruler who knows which way the wind blows will open their borders. Writing the declaration the way it was done was brilliant. Allowing reciprocal preaching turns it from an oppressive declaration of foreign domination into a declaration of religion trumping secular trivialities. The church *needs* to enforce that portion of the declaration, and make it stick.

[Vellos]

Then Gustav should show it by doing something to indicate he's not really Allison's lapdog.

As for a 2/3rds vote, dustole, all you need 2/3rds of the people who /actually/ vote, right? ;)

And as for preaching, any theocratic ruler who knows which way the wind blows will open their borders. Writing the declaration the way it was done was brilliant. Allowing reciprocal preaching turns it from an oppressive declaration of foreign domination into a declaration of religion trumping secular trivialities. The church *needs* to enforce that portion of the declaration, and make it stick.

Heh.

If this amendment passes formally.... it'll be very interesting. I'm already thinking of responses to it for Hireshmont. My favorite one so far is the one I gave the rulers: SA just claimed sovereignty over the Zuma?

[Penchant]

Well it did pass formally it just must not of been shared with many rulers that aren't of SA. Basically it passed but with lots of argueing/protesting happening afterwards which hasn't stopped yet. That will be quite the interesting reply and actually very interesting to here what the Zuma say because Allison did say all of Dwilight which would include the Zuma's lands. You could use that to your advantage if you wanted to repeal it too.

[dustole]

Well it did pass formally it just must not of been shared with many rulers that aren't of SA. Basically it passed but with lots of argueing/protesting happening afterwards which hasn't stopped yet. That will be quite the interesting reply and actually very interesting to here what the Zuma say because Allison did say all of Dwilight which would include the Zuma's lands. You could use that to your advantage if you wanted to repeal it too.

I'm in good with the Zuma.  I've already negotiated preaching rights with the Zuma and the rights to built shrines in Zuma lands.   SA priests have been in Zuma lands for quite some time now.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Then Gustav should show it by doing something to indicate he's not really Allison's lapdog.

As for a 2/3rds vote, dustole, all you need 2/3rds of the people who /actually/ vote, right? ;)

And as for preaching, any theocratic ruler who knows which way the wind blows will open their borders. Writing the declaration the way it was done was brilliant. Allowing reciprocal preaching turns it from an oppressive declaration of foreign domination into a declaration of religion trumping secular trivialities. The church *needs* to enforce that portion of the declaration, and make it stick.

Someone didn't read the message I sent to all the full members of SA.

[Pike]

So what is the point of the amendent if it alows for SA priests to go everywhere but SA theocrocies do not need to allow priests to preach.  Also does this only allow preaching to the peasents or are priess allowed to openly preaxh to nobels as well?

[dustole]

So what is the point of the amendent if it alows for SA priests to go everywhere but SA theocrocies do not need to allow priests to preach.  Also does this only allow preaching to the peasents or are priess allowed to openly preaxh to nobels as well?

I think that the Theocracies will come around.  There are only the Iashalurians who are throwing a fit about it right now.  I attribute that to Aram opposing anything Allisons says.  As for preaching to nobles, nothing stops us from doing that.  There is no game mechanic to preach to a noble.  You just need to convince them to join your church.

[Meneldur]

I'm finding the support of theocracies such as Astrum and Morek for this new declaration very interesting. I remember when the negotiations with Caerwyn were going on, Constantine was criticized for trying to impose preaching rights on the Caerwynians as apparently Brance and Bustoarsenzio thought that was going too far.

Apparently that attitude has changed, at least with Brance; I'd be interested to see what provoked this. Terran aggression perhaps?

Of course this declaration need not turn into a universal crusade, declaring that SA priests will not be prohibited from preaching in foreign lands is not the same as forcing foreign lands to welcome our priests. Although with Allison at it's head and the theocracies apparently compliant we'll have to see.

In short very fun from a player perspective, not so fun for my character lol

[Pike]

I think that the Theocracies will come around.  There are only the Iashalurians who are throwing a fit about it right now.  I attribute that to Aram opposing anything Allisons says.  As for preaching to nobles, nothing stops us from doing that.  There is no game mechanic to preach to a noble.  You just need to convince them to join your church.

It has been explained often that the laws and core ideas of the church are the core ideas of a theocrecy.  You would think that they woul not need to come around.  As to preaching to nobles it boils down if the realm will allow it.  I am guessing that a forign priest can be arrested (from a mecanic) for just abouythingr.  The questin is how much political trouble it causes on both ends.

[Penchant]

I have never heard of a priest being arrested for preaching to a noble as it is done through letters, not forcing anyone to do anything.
"declaring that SA priests will not be prohibited from preaching in foreign lands is not the same as forcing foreign lands to welcome our priests."
please share the difference.

[Meneldur]

I have never heard of a priest being arrested for preaching to a noble as it is done through letters, not forcing anyone to do anything.
"declaring that SA priests will not be prohibited from preaching in foreign lands is not the same as forcing foreign lands to welcome our priests."
please share the difference.

Simple: The Church does not reprimand priests for preaching where they please (a de-facto reality anyway, since priests can't be excommunicated) while at the same time only declaring a crusade when a priest is actually tortured or executed (something that has already been proposed by King Turin).

Of course individual realms such as Kabrinskia may declare wars if they wish, but one theocracy does not make a crusade and King Turin seems to believe that a mere arrest is not a cause for Iashalur to declare war.