Sanguis Astroism

[Vellos]

I'm in good with the Zuma.  I've already negotiated preaching rights with the Zuma and the rights to built shrines in Zuma lands.   SA priests have been in Zuma lands for quite some time now.

Except you just made a proclamation asserting the right of all religions to preach in Zuma lands.

[Gustav Kuriga]

No, it is the right for all religions to preach in SA lands. There is a difference...

[Dante Silverfire]

No, it is the right for all religions to preach in SA lands. There is a difference...

That is not what is says. It says ALL religions can preach in ALL lands.

[egamma]

okay--non-SA realms will revoke passage rights for anyone from a SA realm.

We won't be prohibiting preaching, just calling you a trespasser.

[Penchant]

Simple: The Church does not reprimand priests for preaching where they please (a de-facto reality anyway, since priests can't be excommunicated) while at the same time only declaring a crusade when a priest is actually tortured or executed (something that has already been proposed by King Turin).

Of course individual realms such as Kabrinskia may declare wars if they wish, but one theocracy does not make a crusade and King Turin seems to believe that a mere arrest is not a cause for Iashalur to declare war.

I think most would agree to that though what if a priest repeatedly gets arrested and the realm decides to deport the priest as a way for the priest to stop preaching there. (I understand the church says there is nothing wrong with preaching in other realms but what would the church's reaction be if a priest got deported for this?)

[dustole]

It is a good thing Allison is in Zuma lands now to explain this whole situation to the Zuma along with stopping their war with Morek. 

Arresting a priest is not a simple thing.  You have to declare war on the realm that the priest belongs to.  So in order to arrest that pesky priest chances are you will have to declare war on a Theocracy of Sanguis Astroism to do it.  It is no easy think to arrest a priest.  Some serious consideration would have to go into it.  Madina is currently the only realm around who declared war on SA and wasn't destroyed outright.  Mainly because they were too far south and that was before the founding of Kabrinskia to bring the churches reach a little further south.  That is also the main reason the church just stood back and watched when they were begging for SA's help against Auvrindale.  Declaring war on an SA realm just to arrest a priest is a fairly risky move. 

[Penchant]

Hmmm, not nessacarily. If a realm were to declare war on the grounds that they will fight that realm until the priest is gave to them or arrested, next turn the priest is arrested and peace made if the priest is also let free immediately as King Turin did say he was fine with a realm arresting a priest if they don't do anything to them like torture or execute.

[dustole]

Hmmm, not nessacarily. If a realm were to declare war on the grounds that they will fight that realm until the priest is gave to them or arrested, next turn the priest is arrested and peace made if the priest is also let free immediately as King Turin did say he was fine with a realm arresting a priest if they don't do anything to them like torture or execute.

Turin is a bit of a softy.  There are many nobles in SA just looking for a reason for a war.  Any reason.  Turin is probably the one noble in a position where he couldn't do anything even if he wanted to.  He just has a poor location for warfare at this time. 

I still stand by the fact that any realm who declares war to simply arrest a priest is taking a big risk. Especially if you are the first realm to do it.

[Vellos]

Declaring war on a theocracy is indeed a risky move. But I would hope OOCly that players in Dwilight will be a mite bit less gang-bang happy than in, say, Atamara. I think distance partly contributes to this,

From an outsider's perspective, it looked like it took a !@#$load of crap to get SA to actually productively work together against Thulsoma or Averoth.

Anyways, we'll see how this all plays out.

[Penchant]

Obviously a big risk, if I were to do it I would set up an agreement making temporary wars like that allowed upon by both realms so its not just a hope they will have peace but the word of the realm.

[De-Legro]

Obviously a big risk, if I were to do it I would set up an agreement making temporary wars like that allowed upon by both realms so its not just a hope they will have peace but the word of the realm.

Temporary wars, to arrest a priest with no real consequences? Sounds awfully close to a friendly conflict and hardly SMA to me. I see a real problem with needing to declare war to arrest priest, but setting up agreements for a war deceleration to basically mean nothing is not a great way to handle it.

From the Wiki on SMA

No powergaming. If the only reason you do something is game-mechanics, you should probably not do it. No declarations of war if you don't actually intend to fight, for example. No "assassinate me so the bounty stays within our realm", etc.

[vonGenf]

Temporary wars, to arrest a priest with no real consequences? Sounds awfully close to a friendly conflict and hardly SMA to me. I see a real problem with needing to declare war to arrest priest, but setting up agreements for a war deceleration to basically mean nothing is not a great way to handle it.

War with limited aims however are perfectly fine. You can say "I declare war with the objective to arrest this man and bring him to justice. Once that objective is achieved, I will accept a return to peace".

If you really want to be friendly, however, what you should do is ask the priests' judge to ban the priest, and then arrest the rogue. If the other judge refuses to comply, then yes, you should declare war with all the consequences that imply.

[Feylonis]

Sanguis Astroism theocracies will collectively declare war on any realm that threatens the expansion of their empire. They might not do it simultaneously, but they eventually will. To think otherwise would be an exercise of futility. You're looking at Astrum, Iashalur, Kabrinskia, Morek Empire, and Corsanctum. You should probably throw in Libero and Summerdale into that mix, too. It's best to just embrace the religion or to act like it's not there.

[vonGenf]

or to act like it's not there.

You mean, for example, not including Asylon in your list of SA-ish realms?  ;)

[Indirik]

Some of you people really need to brush up on your game mechanics. As has been said it takes a war declaration to arrest a priest. You can't deport a priest (or anyone) without first banning them. You can't banish a foreign priest unless he was tossed in prison by the game itself while commiting a crime like inciting the peasants or performing an auto de fe. I.e. you cannot have a noble arrest a foreign priest and then have your judge ban them. You cannot cancel a war without agreement from both sides. A cease-fire constitutes improving relations which requires mutual consent. If you declare war you have to get the other side to agree to end it.