Loyalty and Sympathy

[vonGenf]

Re: Feature Cut: Region Loyalty

I always figured sympathy and loyalty were different stats. A region has sympathy to different realms that can be seen by diplomats, affects loyalty and takeovers, and is affected by looting and warfare and diplomats and courts. Loyalty, on the other hand, is affected by both sympathy and estate coverage and courts, and influences control.

Reading the thread "Feature Cut: Region Loyalty" makes me think they may be more closely related than I thought, or maybe even the same.

Was I wrong?

[egamma]

It's the same value, and from what we can tell, it's the only region value that exists for every realm on the continent. If a new player or infil does an undercover report this is pretty obvious.

Region Kepler, of Keplerstan:

Loyalty to Keplerstan: 80%
Sympathy to Evilstani: 90%
Sympathy to Loservill: 10%

[vonGenf]

Loyalty to Keplerstan: 80%
Sympathy to Evilstani: 90%
Sympathy to Loservill: 10%

So if the region change allegiance to Loserville, this will be modified to:

Sympathy to Keplerstan: 80%
Sympathy to Evilstani: 90%
Loyalty to Loservill: 10%

With no other changes? I somehow figured loyalty changed more slowly than that.

[Telrunya]

Technically, Loyalty didn't change at all. They still have a 80% loyalty (now called sympathy) to Keplerstan. Instead, the region now shows Loservill's Loyalty of 10% (previously shown as 10% sympathy) as the Realm now reigns over it.

[vonGenf]

Technically, Loyalty didn't change at all.

Yeah, that's what I mean. If there is a single stat, you just have a different name depending on who owns the region. I thought there were two independant stats.

[Chenier]

Yeah, that's what I mean. If there is a single stat, you just have a different name depending on who owns the region. I thought there were two independant stats.

Same stat, different name according to ownership.

[egamma]

It's a vocabulary issue--you can't be "loyal" to a realm you're not a part of.

[Anaris]

It's a vocabulary issue--you can't be "loyal" to a realm you're not a part of.

Precisely.

[Draco Tanos]

If a region is occupied/annexed by foreign troops, they would still be considered loyal to their original realm, not sympathetic.  For example, if Linlithgow was annexed by the English during one of the many, many wars between England and Scotland, with knights and men-at-arms patrolling the streets and manning the walls, the populace could still very well be loyal to the Kingdom of Scotland.  I doubt anyone would call it "sympathy". 

That's simply because the region, as we'd term it in BattleMaster, would be Scottish but ruled by England.

Now, if a village/town on the English side of the "traditional" border was more pro-Scottish, but its people and culture English, then that'd be "sympathy" rather than "loyalty".

All in all, a matter of semantics.  I do like that the game does keep track of that sort of thing to some degree though.  Just wish it was a little more presistant and took "cultures" into account.

[Anaris]

If a region is occupied/annexed by foreign troops, they would still be considered loyal to their original realm, not sympathetic.

But given all the different permutations of how regions can be taken and retaken, there's no way the game can accurately model this.  Thus, Loyalty is to your own realm, and Sympathy is to all other realms.

[JPierreD]

A Paradox's Victoria-style culture code would be simply great, but it would take a /lot/ of coding, and probably maintenance too. But one can dream, right?

[vonGenf]

My region receives the "The people here do not like being ruled by us." report. However it has a medium-high loyalty (73%, friendly). Moreover when I talk to the locals as an ambassador, I get "The locals are deeply devoted to Morek Empire, and are bursting with pride to call it their home." (or at least I did only two weeks ago).

How can that be? This cannot be explained by a single stat.

[egamma]

My region receives the "The people here do not like being ruled by us." report. However it has a medium-high loyalty (73%, friendly). Moreover when I talk to the locals as an ambassador, I get "The locals are deeply devoted to Morek Empire, and are bursting with pride to call it their home." (or at least I did only two weeks ago).

How can that be? This cannot be explained by a single stat.

Get an undercover report. There is probably a different region that they like better.

[Anaris]

How can that be? This cannot be explained by a single stat.

This is correct. Specifically, the "do not like being ruled" is related to more than one stat.

(And no, Sympathy to 2 different realms do not count as 2 different stats.)

[vonGenf]

This is correct. Specifically, the "do not like being ruled" is related to more than one stat.

(And no, Sympathy to 2 different realms do not count as 2 different stats.)

Thanks, I'll keep searching!