Clear explanation of the difference between nobles and commoners.

[Sacha]

Every few months or so, I see the same old discussion in one of my realms, namely people claiming that commoners and nobles are somehow equals. This time it's happening in Sirion. An excerpt:

'And for the part of commoner and noble, i do think that no noble is of more worth then any commoner. What gives us the right to think like this about the common peasant?'

So it seems that people still think that BM is somehow set in the modern world where things like equality are widespread. And every time one of this arguments erupts, it tends to go on for days, both OOC and IC, and in the end nobody's learned a thing.

So I propose to put a stop to any confusion before it starts, and put a page on the wiki where it is clearly stated what the differences between nobles and commoners are, and how nobles speaking of equality between the two classes should be flayed alive by their peers. Have it signed by Tom himself, so nobody can say 'oh these are just guidelines by players, not rules'. Maybe that way, the players behind the 'affirmative action' nobles will change their ways, or at the very least realize just how insane their characters sound.

[jaune]

Gotta agree on this.

But i just ignore people like that, or if they are my superiors i will change realm. Another funny thing is how lootings which includes word "raped" gets horrible attention even amongst rulers how barbaric and non honorable someone is... then they see no problem at all to 1k peasants get slaughtered on battle. But if peasants scream how enemy looted their houses and killed some people... and when the word RAPE appears to screen people go frenzy.

I have humble request that mayby that rape word could be removed... replace it with abuse or something... as long as there have been wars, civil people have been abused one way or a another... that particular looting method is pretty effective and it cant be used cause over half of the players go frenzy about it.

[Igelfeld]

So I propose to put a stop to any confusion before it starts, and put a page on the wiki where it is clearly stated what the differences between nobles and commoners are, and how nobles speaking of equality between the two classes should be flayed alive by their peers. Have it signed by Tom himself, so nobody can say 'oh these are just guidelines by players, not rules'. Maybe that way, the players behind the 'affirmative action' nobles will change their ways, or at the very least realize just how insane their characters sound.

Good idea.

Commoners are essentially slaves. they work our land, produce our food, give us their earnings, and we protect them. What nobles want to do is keep this distinction strong and keep the commoners calm.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Even so there are commoners who are rich merchants that exist in BM. They are sometimes those NPCs who you talk to as a diplomat (I think). Even nobles would sometimes not want to mess with those guys. But the keyword here is NPC, and I don't mean the NPC class talking corpse/teddy bear/fire lizard. Those really do not feel anything, and for the most part, any treatment to those are up to the players.

The only player character commoners that exist are adventurers. This is another story. While they are commoners and are of lower class than nobles, there remains the fact that this is a game, and we are all people. There is a somewhat vague description of what it means to be a commoner when a player clicks the "Create a new adventurer" link, and the wiki goes more in depth. But certainly I can see how it might get tiresome or frustrating if nobles really acted all superior all the time to commoners. I'm not saying anything about giving them any more rights, so please no one start going down something that I'm not actually saying. But I can understand how it may be a bit frustrating as well to get arrested and beaten up by a noble. Some players do that because they can...

[Telrunya]

But that shouldn't see the Noble getting fined and maybe even banished from his Realm because the commoner told on him. Yeah, it's a pain if you do get beaten up or arrested, but how often does it really happen? It shouldn't really be a problem and it's part of your life as a commoner.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

You can say that so long as it's not your character. I think there are some adventurers on BT that may be a bit angry at a certain infiltrator who stabs every one of them he encounters just because he can get away with it.

[Telrunya]

Then move away and go to some other region. Preferably a City with some militia to protect you a bit. If he travels to the other side of the continent just to stab you, gloat in the fact that he's very much wasting his time. My commoner on BT sadly got killed by the Undead, but I had no incidents at all during that time, so I can assure you that not all of BT gets you stabbed 24 hours a day.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

You might not have any problem with being seriously wounded for about 3 days. And maybe the noble would be wasting his time, but does that really provide that much consolation for being unable to hunt effectively/gather/do just about anything? I think serious wounds also decrease stats sometimes.

Now if you were to move to a city with militia or whatever, I would like to point out a very important fact: Any noble with a unit can arrest/beat up any adventurer anywhere. So...if some noble really has beef with your commoner, life can be pretty darn tough. Sure, it's part of the game, but after a while I think some people would start to throw some OOC messages asking essentially "Dude why?"

[Shizzle]

Although I suppose you might be right on how commoners /should/ be treated, I strongly disagree to put all of this in some sort of 'guidelines' or even 'rules' (yuck).

Of course nobles are supposed to be superior, but what if I, being a noble, decide to not do what I'm supposed to? If I'm Ruler somewhere, and I agree with my Judge to protect commoners (to whatever extent), the other noble can only accept that. If not, start a rebellion. And if the Judge acts without the Ruler's support, you need a stronger ruler :)

This is a roleplaying game, and RP should not be restricted in any way, as long as it's SMA. And I don't think being nice to commoners (hell, even liking them more than some powerful Duke) violates SMA.

If a noble decides to stand up for a commoner, and is prepared to face the consequences, why wouldn't he be allowed to do so? Especially if the noble in question is a Ruler or Judge.

[Foundation]

Thus, let us focus on the noble game. :)

[wraith]

The word from Tom is that to a noble adventurers are the lowest of the low.

So, they should be thought of as little more than working animals like oxen or dogs.. but..

If another noble kicked my best hunting dog for no good reason my noble would likely be annoyed; not necessarily because the dog is in pain but because it's my bloody dog and if anyone is going to kick it it should be me. Other nobles may not care, or might invite their friends round for a drink and a game of kick-my-dog of an evening so it all depends on the noble's personality and how much their dog is worth to them whether they get annoyed or not when one of their human equivalents is assaulted without good reason.

Likewise some nobles may quite like other people's dogs and throw scraps to them as they ride by, others may just see them as hairy target practice and anyone who complains a sentimental fool.

Of course.. proving that a noble did not have good reason to abuse a particular dog would likely come down to their word against the victims; and what noble would take the word of an base animal over that of another noble.. unless that noble was known to be an egregious liar?

Regardless of all this no noble would claim any dog was their equal or should have equal rights, though. That would be plainly ridiculous.

As long as RP of action and complaint makes sense then it's all good.

[BardicNerd]

Saying that commoners are equal to nobles?  Totally ridiculous and a sign of insanity.

Saying that they should be treated kindly?  Perfectly valid and at worst a sign of eccentricity.


If your adventurer is getting picked on by one noble, then make yourself valuable to a more powerful noble.  Perhaps you may still be a dog, but only a fool lets someone else beat up their prize hunting dog without good reason.

[Shizzle]

Saying that commoners are equal to nobles?  Totally ridiculous and a sign of insanity.

Saying that they should be treated kindly?  Perfectly valid and at worst a sign of eccentricity.


If your adventurer is getting picked on by one noble, then make yourself valuable to a more powerful noble.  Perhaps you may still be a dog, but only a fool lets someone else beat up their prize hunting dog without good reason.

what I was trying to say, thanks :)

[Sacha]

My quarrel is not that people think advies shouldn't treated as piles of dog !@#$ all the time. But in every realm, there's always a handful of nobles who say advies should be treated as equal to nobles, and they hardly ever get called out for speaking such nonsense. At worst they risk a reprimand, usually they just get away with it without any problems. There have been realms where the rulers themselves spoke such drivel, or where judges have punished nobles for mopping the floor with an advy. I recall an instance on FEI where a judge sent a nasty letter about his advy brother getting assassinated, yelling about how dishonorable it was and wanting compensation.

That's just... wrong.

[egamma]

My quarrel is not that people think advies shouldn't treated as piles of dog !@#$ all the time. But in every realm, there's always a handful of nobles who say advies should be treated as equal to nobles, and they hardly ever get called out for speaking such nonsense. At worst they risk a reprimand, usually they just get away with it without any problems. There have been realms where the rulers themselves spoke such drivel, or where judges have punished nobles for mopping the floor with an advy. I recall an instance on FEI where a judge sent a nasty letter about his advy brother getting assassinated, yelling about how dishonorable it was and wanting compensation.

That's just... wrong.

The judge in Giblot passed a law (after a realm-wide vote) saying this:

Law 6 - Adventurers
    * Adventurers of Giblot are not to be arrested without being accused of a crime.
    * The arrest of foreign adventurers is highly encouraged!

I think we had 2 or 3 players go to other realms because of it. The way the judge framed it, basically, is that our adventurers are working for the region lords, and by arresting them without cause, the noble doing the arresting is causing harm to a region lord.