Feature Cut: Region Loyalty

[MaleMaldives]

I think the way realm loyalty is implemented now isn't very good, but I like idea of something along realm loyalty lines. For example, I think realm loyalty shouldn't affect control, but instead increase production. More gold would be collected if the people like the realm because of the prosperity they have given them by keeping them self. So yeah, I think it would be good to get rid if something else like it was put in down the road.

[Heq]

Realm Loyalty adds to the time to consolidate gains, which means more downtime and less politics and war.  Thus my vote is to axe it.

[JPierreD]

I personally love the layer of complexity Loyalty gives, with a region having a different stat for every Realm. It is also realistic that if you loot, murder and rape today, tomorrow you will have a more difficult time having the peasants accept you.

If not on Realm-level, Loyalty could be determined on a Duchy-level, giving even more reasons not to switch between Duchies as if it were an everyday event  (as Loyalty would take a hit, unless you are moving to a much more loved Duchy). It is a compromise between the unreal nationalism-Loyalty we have now and the much better lord-Loyalty of medieval times (similar to a claim).

I hope if Loyalty gets removed in the current format, it comes back with something like that later.

[Chenier]

Yes, looting in a lot of places was made illegal. But now, for anyone fighting a serious war, looting regions to death has become the standard, because realms know they can't take the land.

The New Estate system will help remove this, and hopefully bring back more conquering of land, rather than just destruction of enemy resources. IMO, removing Loyalty will remove the major incentive to /not/ loot regions while you BTO them. After all, it will make the BTO go faster, won't hurt your realm much at all, and you wont' have to leave anyone behind to rebuild it when you're done.

I'm not sure about this one. I think I agree with Tim, and that this might be too much, too fast.

I agree, looting had pretty much become the norm, and we have yet to see if the new estates will change this.

Though about the BTO: who the hell does a BTO instead of a HTO if they don't plan on looting?

[Chenier]

loyalty is part of the ambassador game right now... what takes its place?

Ambassadors get to be overglorified postal workers again. ;)

[egamma]

Go back and read the first couple of entries guys--a lot of the loyalty stuff (bonuses, penalties, consequences) will end up under Control. So Diplomats could end up placing control, murder would affect control, etc.

[Shenron]

I agree with Tarm.

We can do without loyalty. I think it currently slows down the game too much.

[Tom]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

The decision is to keep it. It's on the list for future improvements and changes, but right now, we will retain it.

I will close this thread so the result doesn't get lost in the discussion.