Vanguard Movement and Combat (Do Cavalry care?)

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Vanguard are supposed to move faster, but at what general size? It seems like a 10 man unit of whatever does not show a difference in movement speed whether they are vanguard or anything other than sentries (Not sure if sentries even affects this). I have also heard that they have lower combat in battle, but I am not sure about how true this is. There is a "vulnerable to surprise attacks" thing on the wiki, but what is a surprise attack anyway? I have never ever seen an ambush where a unit was invisible in a region or otherwise couldn't be scouted beforehand.

[Foundation]

The wiki's description for these and some other unit setting related explanations are terribly outdated and vague, not to mention misleading... :P

Give me a few specific questions and what the general consensus (on wiki or IRC) is on them and I'll check when I get some time.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

1. Do they have lower CS compared to regular army with all other factors controlled?

2. What the heck is a surprise attack?

[Indirik]

1) No.

2) It's an attack that surprises you.

Addendum to 2) I have no idea what that old "susceptible to surprise attack" description was in the Vanguard description. I removed it a few weeks ago. Probably was a planned feature that never got implemented.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I could have sworn that vanguard were inferior in pitched battles, but I suppose that was just from collected hearsay.

[egamma]

Vanguard cannot dig in--perhaps that's what the reference is.

[Blue Star]

Concerning this i've noticed that vanguard do save hrs on travel but that seems to be about it. nothing wrong with that but I had a question or two.

1) Vangaurd switch out their armor for say um light mail or leather therefore, do they take more damge in comabt than other units?

2) Is this feature say better than regular army unless your trying to save some hours?

[Peri]

I think it was mentioned somewhere that even if their cs is constant, vanguard perform worse in battle than regular army. Much like designing your men as police will worsen their combat performance. Or so I've always thought/seen.

[egamma]

I think it was mentioned somewhere that even if their cs is constant, vanguard perform worse in battle than regular army. Much like designing your men as police will worsen their combat performance. Or so I've always thought/seen.

Someone has said elsewhere that police units morale is affected, but not their actual combat effectiveness.

[Phellan]

I was always under the impression Vanguard take more Equip Dmg than other types of troops.

[Zakilevo]

I doubt they make much difference.

I pretty much think Vanguard as faster movement by 2-3 hours but costs more.

The battle settings should be changed once the economic system gets implemented. At least maybe make vanguard gain 25% more movement while losing 25% armor? opposite for sentries?

[Shizzle]

I doubt they make much difference.

I pretty much think Vanguard as faster movement by 2-3 hours but costs more.

The battle settings should be changed once the economic system gets implemented. At least maybe make vanguard gain 25% more movement while losing 25% armor? opposite for sentries?

When you change your unit settings, I hardly think it's realistic that battle gear is altered. If a unit is changed to Vanguard, the way I see it, the soldiers drop bedrolls, extra rations and the like. They don't change armor or weapons (where would they get those, suddenly? Smithies are only available in cities, townslands or strongholds). It's not like every soldier carries around two or three types of equipment, like you'd be doing in some RPG game.

Also, Vanguard units would be travelling rapidly, so no hunting or foraging along the way. This could explain a higher upkeep cost.

[fodder]

... here's an interesting thing.

i set movement then change from regular to vanguard, resulting in no visible difference in stated travel time. but turn change said the trip cost 2 hrs less.

but i suspect if i change to vanguard before setting travel, the stated travel time would have been less. (don't know, not in position to pay men again and check)

[De-Legro]

... here's an interesting thing.

i set movement then change from regular to vanguard, resulting in no visible difference in stated travel time. but turn change said the trip cost 2 hrs less.

but i suspect if i change to vanguard before setting travel, the stated travel time would have been less. (don't know, not in position to pay men again and check)

Yes if you are already travelling the game will not update the travel time, but the change will take effect on the TC. This can cause confusion as their is no immediate feedback upon switching to vanguard. If you switch before travelling the travel times are displayed correctly.

[fodder]

i reckon they should probb;y leave it as standard time everywhere but make vanguard faster at turn change