Author Topic: Civilization expanding?  (Read 60512 times)

Indirik

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #150: February 14, 2012, 12:53:55 AM »
As far as Ubent goes, yes it is quite a bit different. Mountain regions on EC are financially well-off, and produce a decent surplus of food. On Dwilight they are poor in both food and gold, and have a pretty low pop.
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Sacha

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #151: February 14, 2012, 01:03:15 AM »
Would a BR realm be so different from later-life Ubent?

Except its neighbors would be more distant, and it's mountains even more difficult to assail?

Personally, if I could contrive an RP basis for my next character to go to a BR realm, I would. I just think it'd be really neat.

Ubent's close, but there are still some differences. The mountains around Castle Ubent were a lot wealthier than those around BR. One Ubent mountain probably had about the same gold output as all the Divides together. And by the time Ubent had shrunk to BR-sized proportions, it had been around for years, and used to be a lot larger and more powerful. I don't know how the realm was created, but I don't think it was through a CTO of a dirt-poor region surrounded by dirt-poor mountains, more likely through secession of a well-established duchy.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a BR realm, but I make no illusions that BR alone would ever bring the realm to a level of power even close to its closest neighbors. With Morek, Corsanctum, D'Hara and Solaria creeping ever closer to the mountains, and the very likely scenario that a fifth realm will be established in Flowrestown, that's a lot of potential enemies. If a war breaks out in the area, BR would need to either remain neutral, or bet it all on picking a side and hoping they prevail.

They do have good defensive options, but travel times through the Alley of Swords are not as long as those through the Divides. A bottleneck, sure, but with the poor income they'll have, they can't withstand much enemy onslaught. They'd get pinned down in BR much like Thulsoma was pinned down in Storm's Keep, and from then on it's just a matter of time. Compare it to the battle of Helm's Deep from LoTR minus the Rohirrim arriving in the nick of time to save the fortress from falling to the Uruk-hai.

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #152: February 14, 2012, 01:20:50 AM »
Ubent's close, but there are still some differences. The mountains around Castle Ubent were a lot wealthier than those around BR. One Ubent mountain probably had about the same gold output as all the Divides together. And by the time Ubent had shrunk to BR-sized proportions, it had been around for years, and used to be a lot larger and more powerful. I don't know how the realm was created, but I don't think it was through a CTO of a dirt-poor region surrounded by dirt-poor mountains, more likely through secession of a well-established duchy.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a BR realm, but I make no illusions that BR alone would ever bring the realm to a level of power even close to its closest neighbors. With Morek, Corsanctum, D'Hara and Solaria creeping ever closer to the mountains, and the very likely scenario that a fifth realm will be established in Flowrestown, that's a lot of potential enemies. If a war breaks out in the area, BR would need to either remain neutral, or bet it all on picking a side and hoping they prevail.

They do have good defensive options, but travel times through the Alley of Swords are not as long as those through the Divides. A bottleneck, sure, but with the poor income they'll have, they can't withstand much enemy onslaught. They'd get pinned down in BR much like Thulsoma was pinned down in Storm's Keep, and from then on it's just a matter of time. Compare it to the battle of Helm's Deep from LoTR minus the Rohirrim arriving in the nick of time to save the fortress from falling to the Uruk-hai.

Whoever said that BR would ever want to fight in a war? That just seems like a losing proposition to everyone. Claim absolute neutrality and never pose a threat to anyone. By doing so, you save yourself having to fight wars.
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Adriddae

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #153: February 14, 2012, 01:25:41 AM »
Whoever said that BR would ever want to fight in a war? That just seems like a losing proposition to everyone. Claim absolute neutrality and never pose a threat to anyone. By doing so, you save yourself having to fight wars.

Then it would be boring. Whaddya gonna do? Beg other realms to feed your dirt poor mountains, and fight monsters? It doesn't seem like a very exciting life in the mountains. Sadly, a BR realm is not a very appealing.

If there was a trade good that came from mountains, on the other hand...

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #154: February 14, 2012, 01:28:16 AM »
Then it would be boring. Whaddya gonna do? Beg other realms to feed your dirt poor mountains, and fight monsters? It doesn't seem like a very exciting life in the mountains. Sadly, a BR realm is not a very appealing.

If there was a trade good that came from mountains, on the other hand...

You act like a lot of realms don't currently have the problem of not having anyone to fight. Look at the Moot and SA? They are all friendly with everyone around them. This is a pretty common trait of Dwilight, not fighting wars. Plus, I have plenty of ideas of ways to keep one's nobles occupied.
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Sacha

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #155: February 14, 2012, 01:42:57 AM »
Whoever said that BR would ever want to fight in a war? That just seems like a losing proposition to everyone. Claim absolute neutrality and never pose a threat to anyone. By doing so, you save yourself having to fight wars.

Many seem to think that BR = impenetrable fortress = domination. And I've seen your ways of keeping things interesting without wars. Usually they end up in wars :P

Indirik

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #156: February 14, 2012, 01:58:14 AM »
You may be able to do some form of religious center in the realm. But you'd have to have a rather powerful religion and large noble base to support that. You could then try pilgrimages, and mandatory religious service, etc. We tried something like that with SA and Corsanctum, but it was a total flop. Not enough people are willing to swap realms like that. Especially once you start talking about having to give up lordships and council positions.
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De-Legro

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #157: February 14, 2012, 01:58:58 AM »
You act like a lot of realms don't currently have the problem of not having anyone to fight. Look at the Moot and SA? They are all friendly with everyone around them. This is a pretty common trait of Dwilight, not fighting wars. Plus, I have plenty of ideas of ways to keep one's nobles occupied.

None of them have Brom setting up the realm, with a militant realm south of them wanting his blood.
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Dante Silverfire

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #158: February 14, 2012, 02:00:01 AM »
Many seem to think that BR = impenetrable fortress = domination. And I've seen your ways of keeping things interesting without wars. Usually they end up in wars :P

Well it'd be a lot easier to avoid such wars without a certain annoying young knight with all the same traits as the previous family hating on my character.

Anyway, this won't be the same way of keeping things interesting, although Luria was never dull.

 
None of them have Brom setting up the realm, with a militant realm south of them wanting his blood.

Well, that explains a lot. Brom's blood is tasty, but I didn't think Solarians ate humans. (They just give them to their zuma friends)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 02:01:39 AM by Dante Silverfire »
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Sacha

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #159: February 14, 2012, 02:34:58 AM »
Well it'd be a lot easier to avoid such wars without a certain annoying young knight with all the same traits as the previous family hating on my character.

2 things wrong with that statement.

1. If the Ortiz hadn't been around, you'd still be dealing with Capets, and the hatred would go far beyond a few zingers in the Halls now and then.
2. If you think Luis not existing would have saved you from a war, you're giving me way, way, way, way too much credit for my involvement in this. Besides, your fate was decided before I deleted the Capets anyway.

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #160: February 14, 2012, 03:06:09 AM »
2 things wrong with that statement.

1. If the Ortiz hadn't been around, you'd still be dealing with Capets, and the hatred would go far beyond a few zingers in the Halls now and then.
2. If you think Luis not existing would have saved you from a war, you're giving me way, way, way, way too much credit for my involvement in this. Besides, your fate was decided before I deleted the Capets anyway.

1. The Capets were just as ostracized if not more than the Silverfires. People wouldn't consider what you said as valid simply because it'd be rehashing old arguments. However, rehashing old arguments from a completely new family, that were based solely off the old, is just somewhat weird.
2. Saved me from the war? Likely not. Being one of the few to continuously point out Brom's faults. Ya, that causes a problem. Thus, preventing peace, quite involved.
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Indirik

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #161: March 12, 2012, 01:32:02 PM »
* Ramiel laughs and wonders what will happen the two SA people see what the map looks like in January :D
So... It's March already, and I really don't see anything amazingly different.

Or perhaps you meant January 2013? ;)
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Sacha

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #162: March 12, 2012, 11:55:57 PM »
I bet Ramiel isn't laughing at the current map xD

Chenier

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Re: Civilization expanding?
« Reply #163: March 13, 2012, 01:27:32 AM »
I bet Ramiel isn't laughing at the current map xD

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