Cathing your realm's scouts?

[Chenier]

True, but if you want to have micro control at that level, you can pay the penalties. There is more then likely reasons the devs didn't just give that info directly to the marshals.

Micro? Micro is ordering people to give you unit reports, micro is ordering people to report when they set movement or change line settings, micro is making flowcharts with the nobles' activity rates in order to be able to statistically predict the rate at which various orders are followed.

Imo, spending 1 hour to know what everyone is doing in a given region is just normal. And I always carry a ton of scouts with me, so losing one or two usually doesn't matter. If you ask me, since scouts are as cheap as they are, this is how it was meant to be all along.

To be clear, I'm perfectly fine with how things are right now.

[De-Legro]

Micro? Micro is ordering people to give you unit reports, micro is ordering people to report when they set movement or change line settings, micro is making flowcharts with the nobles' activity rates in order to be able to statistically predict the rate at which various orders are followed.

Imo, spending 1 hour to know what everyone is doing in a given region is just normal. And I always carry a ton of scouts with me, so losing one or two usually doesn't matter. If you ask me, since scouts are as cheap as they are, this is how it was meant to be all along.

To be clear, I'm perfectly fine with how things are right now.

Dom to be clear, most of the things you do to play BM are not normal. You only have to look at the amount of time each day you used to dedicate to the game to know that. Most armies I've been in will set orders, and next turn the Marshal can examine who followed them. We will scout ahead if entering enemy lands, both to see our forces and to see enemy forces that might be entering to defend. At a stretch if we are defending we might scout our own region, but it is highly unlikely because the reality is we aren't going to change orders.

[Chenier]

Dom to be clear, most of the things you do to play BM are not normal. You only have to look at the amount of time each day you used to dedicate to the game to know that. Most armies I've been in will set orders, and next turn the Marshal can examine who followed them. We will scout ahead if entering enemy lands, both to see our forces and to see enemy forces that might be entering to defend. At a stretch if we are defending we might scout our own region, but it is highly unlikely because the reality is we aren't going to change orders.

Maybe you just don't play generals and marshals in the same circumstances as I do. I've had a lot of fights alongside allies, where poor communication and poor obedience were rather rampant. Hell, even when it's just the army I'm marshal of, I regularly spot people moving to the wrong regions.

Sure, above-normal time spent on BM does account for some (a lot (most)) of that, though.

[Indirik]

The question you should be asking is why are you sending scouts to a region that contains your own sides troops.

Wut? You don't scout your own regions, or regions that your own troops are in? I thought everyone did that. How else can you share that info with your allies? Or even with other people in your own realm so you can plan strategies as a group? Or look at again tomorrow to see movement patterns? Or to see who's arriving and who's leaving? (Marshal status screens only show you who's traveling, and make distinction between heading into and out of a region.) In fact, I consider scouting of your own troop positions to be required in just about all circumstances.

[Chenier]

Wut? You don't scout your own regions, or regions that your own troops are in? I thought everyone did that. How else can you share that info with your allies? Or even with other people in your own realm so you can plan strategies as a group? Or look at again tomorrow to see movement patterns? Or to see who's arriving and who's leaving? (Marshal status screens only show you who's traveling, and make distinction between heading into and out of a region.) In fact, I consider scouting of your own troop positions to be required in just about all circumstances.

I knew I wasn't a micromanaging crazy person.

[Indirik]

Wanting to know where people are, and what they're doing, isn't micromanaging. That's called good intelligence. The marshal/general's summaries are good, but they still lack essential information. And besides, you can't share that information with anyone. And it doesn't tell you what your allies are doing. Or the enemy troops that might happen to be in the region with you.

So, yeah, not needing to scout regions that have your own troops int it? I can only assume that De-Legro had a bit of a lapse there...

[De-Legro]

Wanting to know where people are, and what they're doing, isn't micromanaging. That's called good intelligence. The marshal/general's summaries are good, but they still lack essential information. And besides, you can't share that information with anyone. And it doesn't tell you what your allies are doing. Or the enemy troops that might happen to be in the region with you.

So, yeah, not needing to scout regions that have your own troops int it? I can only assume that De-Legro had a bit of a lapse there...

No I didn't. If I need to see where people are I can either use the map or the marshal screen. I never made it my job as marshal to check that people were moving. If orders were issued in good time then I expected the nobility to follow them. If I found the following turn that was not the case then I could do something about it. I never considered that I was required to check that every knight or ally had set movement orders. What would it achieve, either I would have sent reminders which since they ignored the first orders were likely to do little anyway, or try and change my orders which was likely to result in other mistakes.

[Indirik]

I suppose that if you're the only marshal involved, planning all on your own without help, no allied around, and there are no enemy troops involved in any of the regions your own troops are in, *then* maybe, just maybe, I could see not necessarily wanting a scout report of the regions with your own troops in them. In all other situations, I consider them essential when marching to war. Scout *everything*. It has nothing to do with wanting to change orders, or to check up and see if all the nobles in the army are moving or not. There are very limited situations in which late-turn orders make sense. It has to do with wanting to see who is in what region, with what troops, in a convenient, comprehensive, and easily disseminated format. Marshal summaries, while helpful in some circumstances, are very lacking in utility, especially when there are people beyond just the marshal involved.

[De-Legro]

I suppose that if you're the only marshal involved, planning all on your own without help, no allied around, and there are no enemy troops involved in any of the regions your own troops are in, *then* maybe, just maybe, I could see not necessarily wanting a scout report of the regions with your own troops in them. In all other situations, I consider them essential when marching to war. Scout *everything*. It has nothing to do with wanting to change orders, or to check up and see if all the nobles in the army are moving or not. There are very limited situations in which late-turn orders make sense. It has to do with wanting to see who is in what region, with what troops, in a convenient, comprehensive, and easily disseminated format. Marshal summaries, while helpful in some circumstances, are very lacking in utility, especially when there are people beyond just the marshal involved.

For me that is what communication with the Marshals and Generals of other armies and realms are for. Is it as efficient as simply getting all the info via scouts? Of course not but to me it seems much more fitting to the atmosphere as well as fostering communication and co-operation. If I'm a marshal of an army, my job is to command MY army, not worry about where other marshals or allies armies might be, that is a job for the General.

[Chenier]

For me that is what communication with the Marshals and Generals of other armies and realms are for. Is it as efficient as simply getting all the info via scouts? Of course not but to me it seems much more fitting to the atmosphere as well as fostering communication and co-operation. If I'm a marshal of an army, my job is to command MY army, not worry about where other marshals or allies armies might be, that is a job for the General.

Who said that only marshals could scout their own armies, and that generals couldn't also be marshals?

[De-Legro]

Who said that only marshals could scout their own armies, and that generals couldn't also be marshals?

No one, read more carefully. I also said I prefer such information to come from the marshals/ generals responsible.

I look at it this way, if I was a noble, full of my own self importance and honour, and some other noble from another damn army was sending scouts just to check I was doing my job and my noble followers were accompanying me, well I would very much consider running them through, scout, noble and all.

[Chenier]

When I'm general, I usually can't afford to wait for my peers to tell me their status before I can make suggestions. Scouting my allies therefore allows me to know their status right away, and cut to the chase by immediately making a suggestion. Likewise, I can send him copies of scout reports of my own armies.

That way, instead of exchanging letters with each other about each other's statuses (which is really inconvenient if both aren't on at the same time, early after turn change), cutting this out of the discussions is quite useful.

[De-Legro]

When I'm general, I usually can't afford to wait for my peers to tell me their status before I can make suggestions. Scouting my allies therefore allows me to know their status right away, and cut to the chase by immediately making a suggestion. Likewise, I can send him copies of scout reports of my own armies.

That way, instead of exchanging letters with each other about each other's statuses (which is really inconvenient if both aren't on at the same time, early after turn change), cutting this out of the discussions is quite useful.

I understand this mindset, I really do. What I am saying is that based on Toms comments about such things as General supposed to be providing the strategic objectives and other comments, I believe it is not the desired mind set

Here is how I see it, the General sends his orders

"Armies of the Golden Harlot and Silver Rabbit, move your forces to Northcote Caste within 4 days. From there we will assault New Yorks rural plains before weeks end. Our glorious allies shall arrive at the same region within the same time frame"

I know the game allows in many instances for scout to give you real time up to date info, but basing military strategy and tactics on the absolute reliance of large amounts of such reports smacks of modern military thinking with our spy drones and other technology. Of course the problem is if you don't play this way you stand to lose battles.

If you fight battles and wars by imposing upon yourself some of the restrictions that real medieval armies would have faced with regards to organisation, then the need for such constant updates is diminished.

[Chenier]

I understand this mindset, I really do. What I am saying is that based on Toms comments about such things as General supposed to be providing the strategic objectives and other comments, I believe it is not the desired mind set

Here is how I see it, the General sends his orders

"Armies of the Golden Harlot and Silver Rabbit, move your forces to Northcote Caste within 4 days. From there we will assault New Yorks rural plains before weeks end. Our glorious allies shall arrive at the same region within the same time frame"

I know the game allows in many instances for scout to give you real time up to date info, but basing military strategy and tactics on the absolute reliance of large amounts of such reports smacks of modern military thinking with our spy drones and other technology. Of course the problem is if you don't play this way you stand to lose battles.

If you fight battles and wars by imposing upon yourself some of the restrictions that real medieval armies would have faced with regards to organisation, then the need for such constant updates is diminished.

Keep in mind that often the general is also the marshal of the main army. There used to be days where there were more people wanting to be marshals than sponsors ready to fund armies. Sadly, those days are over, and I'd say quite long gone. And of the few actually willing to take the job, few are actually good at it.

As such, when multiple armies move together, the superior (the general) tends to take command for simplicity and efficiency's sake.

As a marshal, I always expected great autonomy, and exercised it with zeal. When I later became general, however, it just seemed like most marshals were just begging for the general to give orders for them. I know what Tom tried to push, but in the realms I played, the only marshal who ever really stood up for his right to lead his army as per his own instructions was myself.

[De-Legro]

Keep in mind that often the general is also the marshal of the main army. There used to be days where there were more people wanting to be marshals than sponsors ready to fund armies. Sadly, those days are over, and I'd say quite long gone. And of the few actually willing to take the job, few are actually good at it.

As such, when multiple armies move together, the superior (the general) tends to take command for simplicity and efficiency's sake.

As a marshal, I always expected great autonomy, and exercised it with zeal. When I later became general, however, it just seemed like most marshals were just begging for the general to give orders for them. I know what Tom tried to push, but in the realms I played, the only marshal who ever really stood up for his right to lead his army as per his own instructions was myself.

Did you ever think the reason so few people WANT to be marshal is that the expectations of masses of scout analysis, on line times and other factors are simply more then people want to commit to for a recreational game? I've known so many marshal that felt amazing pressure to be online just before and after every turn change, to have scout reports in analysed and plans made within the hour of turn change so that nobody would log in and out before orders were given etc.

Attitudes like, "I can't afford to wait for my peers to tell me their status" etc only go to increase this hectic need, for a game that only has turns every 12 hours this is bordering on insane. They are your PEERS treat them with the respect a medieval noble would demand and forget the 21st century need to plan out meticulous strategies and tactics. Great medieval generals anticipated their enemies moves on info that was days if not weeks old, not on a scout report telling them what was happening 5 minutes ago.