Fifth Invasion

[Naidraug]

Are you trying to piss me off or do you write stuff without thinking what it sounds like?

I don't see why I should put up with an attitude like that. I already put several hours every day into this, I don't have time for crap like this in addition. This is the last reply you'll get from me. If you don't like the invasion, play on some other island. I just stopped giving a damn what you think about it.

I just replied following the same attitude you replied me first, same ironic line as you. It is bad to be on the other side right?

You are not the only one that put several hours every day into this. I believe everyone that is here does that.

If you stop to giving a damn about anyone who criticize you, well, this game should be perfect by now then, with all the critics gone...

PS: I did not started this wanting to piss anyone off, and I do think when i write, specially because English is not my first language, so i have to think it and translate it, so yeah i think it when i write. I thought this was a topic to discuss the Fifth invasion, so that's what I am doing, discussing it. You can't expect everyone to enjoy the way you are running things.

[Naidraug]

Thats not a puzzle, its common sense. In a work environment if a college you are working with suddenly stops sending emails, what do you do. Oh yeah maybe send a email and try and see what is going on. So we have a gloating Overlord suddenly go silent. Perhaps that implies things aren't going the way he wants, whatever the case a quick message would seem to be in order. After all its not like you don't have an established line of correspondence.

Yeah but when this college only sends crappy email you feel better that he stopped sending crappy emails.

And Geronus managed to summarize what I have being saying, if there is any clue that can give us a good advantage on the daimons, if there is anything. The way it is being dwelt with is not helping us to anything. And the only advice we have is we should role-play? As if this would help anything.

Even if we think this as a RPG, there can't be a role-play if the GM doesn't set the mood or doesn't RP your enemies, no RPG would go:

GM- you´re in medieval times, you're attacked by flesh eaters
player - how do they look like? How the leader looks like?
GM- Strong and you feel scared.

Even if we want to RP, with the daimons or anything, even to RP inside our own realm we need details.

And as I said before, RP won't help giving us advantage, game mechanics doesn't work that way. Game mechanics doesn't care about RP and does not support it to be a important and decisive thing on this game.

[De-Legro]

Yeah but when this college only sends crappy email you feel better that he stopped sending crappy emails.

And Geronus managed to summarize what I have being saying, if there is any clue that can give us a good advantage on the daimons, if there is anything. The way it is being dwelt with is not helping us to anything. And the only advice we have is we should role-play? As if this would help anything.

Even if we think this as a RPG, there can't be a role-play if the GM doesn't set the mood or doesn't RP your enemies, no RPG would go:

GM- you´re in medieval times, you're attacked by flesh eaters
player - how do they look like? How the leader looks like?
GM- Strong and you feel scared.

Even if we want to RP, with the daimons or anything, even to RP inside our own realm we need details.

And as I said before, RP won't help giving us advantage, game mechanics doesn't work that way. Game mechanics doesn't care about RP and does not support it to be a important and decisive thing on this game.

Sigh, you know the ONLY advantage against the daimons this time around that is apparent from the forums and IC? Decent team work, co-ordination and communication between realms. Working out Daimon tactics is probably also helpful, but mostly to me it appears simple. Co-ordinate and arrest the damn priest, then kill them. Co-ordinate and meet the Daimon armies in force, prioritising regions that would result in blight if lost. There isn't some sort of items to find to give an advantage. Their isn't some magical trigger point of, oh we kill this particular daimon or defend this particular region and things will change, its war just like war against other realms.

And you are misunderstanding Tom with regards to RP. He isn't talking about sending out RP messages. He is talking about facing the damn threat like a noble. Its not about sending RP messages to Overlord, its about trying to re-establish communication so you regain a possible source of information. RP messages might make up some of the "communication", I would think standard letters would be useful though.

Perhaps if people were to stop hoping for a way to travel through the blight, or to unblight regions and just focused on stopping the Daimons from doing any more damage you would make more progress.

[Naidraug]

Sigh, you know the ONLY advantage against the daimons this time around that is apparent from the forums and IC? Decent team work, co-ordination and communication between realms. Working out Daimon tactics is probably also helpful, but mostly to me it appears simple. Co-ordinate and arrest the damn priest, then kill them. Co-ordinate and meet the Daimon armies in force, prioritising regions that would result in blight if lost. There isn't some sort of items to find to give an advantage. Their isn't some magical trigger point of, oh we kill this particular daimon or defend this particular region and things will change, its war just like war against other realms.

And you are misunderstanding Tom with regards to RP. He isn't talking about sending out RP messages. He is talking about facing the damn threat like a noble. Its not about sending RP messages to Overlord, its about trying to re-establish communication so you regain a possible source of information. RP messages might make up some of the "communication", I would think standard letters would be useful though.

Perhaps if people were to stop hoping for a way to travel through the blight, or to unblight regions and just focused on stopping the Daimons from doing any more damage you would make more progress.

We do have that, that´s what made the daimons change tactics and attack more than one realm at once. But is hard to fight something you can't defeat, what is the point on killing something if on the next turn, it will be alive again? None. There is no magical trick? Ok so don't start claiming that there is a way to defeat the daimons, that there are things we need to get it, when it is not possible and there is nothing to get.

As I said before, if Tom had said from the begging "I want to sink the island, but i want you all go down fighting and with honor" then I´d be ok with that.

But no, if there is a way to defeat them, then there is a way to defeat them. We know we can't treat this like a normal war because it ain't. Overlord can summon troops from where he wants whenever he wants. We can't, our troops will eventually be gone, no matter the realm, so all we can do is what we know (and again the game mechanics allows it): fight every turn. But it is hard to fight every turn, when your enemy goes back to life every time you kill it.

[Zakilevo]

You are doing nothing but complain. You are complaining because you can't find a way to defeat daimons since they are stronger than you and come back every turn. You want Tom to show you the way instead of trying to find a way yourself. If you dislike the invasion, you can always pause or move out of BT like I did. While I led Enweil, I enjoyed battles themselves, didn't care much about beating them. Once Enweil practically died, I paused because it just became boring from that point.

[De-Legro]

We do have that, that´s what made the daimons change tactics and attack more than one realm at once. But is hard to fight something you can't defeat, what is the point on killing something if on the next turn, it will be alive again? None. There is no magical trick? Ok so don't start claiming that there is a way to defeat the daimons, that there are things we need to get it, when it is not possible and there is nothing to get.

As I said before, if Tom had said from the begging "I want to sink the island, but i want you all go down fighting and with honor" then I´d be ok with that.

But no, if there is a way to defeat them, then there is a way to defeat them. We know we can't treat this like a normal war because it ain't. Overlord can summon troops from where he wants whenever he wants. We can't, our troops will eventually be gone, no matter the realm, so all we can do is what we know (and again the game mechanics allows it): fight every turn. But it is hard to fight every turn, when your enemy goes back to life every time you kill it.

Um there is a way to defeat them. Overlord has recruitment restrictions, this has been said several times across several invasions. NPC forces ALWAYS have something that defines where and how much they can recruit. The fact your early successes FORCED a tactics change should prove they are defeat able. If they were simply able to spam troops endlessly, there would have been little reason to change tactics would there. Tom could have just created forces big enough to take on your blobs and had some epic battles.

Try re-evaluating some of your assumptions, because they are very very wrong.

[Geronus]

Granted to everything you say, but there's no evidence that what Overlord is doing now is some sort of plan B. If we're winning they should be getting weaker. But wait! They're in fact stronger than ever now. This, as you might imagine, is a bit frustrating.

We'll keep doing what we're doing because we have no other choice, but the reason people keep looking for magic solutions is that there is no obvious way to WIN. What we have here is an apparently endless fight against a mutating enemy that simply changes tactics every time we have him figured out (sorta). We kill the leaders - they come back. We destroy armies, at great cost, and a day later the same commander shows up with a brand new one.

*Edit: Seems I hit the post button too soon. Here's the rest of it.*

I have heard so many times that the Invaders have limited resources and never once have I ever seen any indication that the limits actually impose a practical restriction. The Monsters in the Fourth invasion had literally endless hordes. We must have destroyed thousands of them with the Temple of Light alone, not to mention what they threw away on some of their sieges, and they just came back every single time with a brand new army. They had so many troops that they used to drop hundreds of monsters at a time off as militia units  to use *as an expendable attack force* in fortified enemy regions. The daimons and undead also never showed any sign of even approaching a limit to their forces. Anyone else remember when the daimons had 100,000 CS in a single region?

To be fair, I've seen things in this Invasion that suggest there might be some actual restrictions this time (like the army of 'Refitted Daimons' that just showed up in Sandlakes, and that bizarre little episode where three commanders recruited units of peasants), but unless these Flesheaters are Overlord's last gasp, I'm going to go ahead and say that there is no end in sight. I mean, let's say we keep on beating his armies (by no means a given) and whittle him down. Does he just... Give up eventually? Run out of armies and retreat sullenly into the Blight, ne'er to be seen again until the Sixth Invasion? If so I kinda wish that had been more clear from the beginning. I know Tom keeps yelling 'THERE'S NO MAGIC BULLET', but when things happen like what happened in Vilriil, you can't help wondering, plus in the last two Invasions there definitely were things that had to be done aside from just fending off the Invaders.

[fodder]

We will celebrate when it happens.

What now?

mind you... eh.. perhaps it'll "live" as long as the locked account is around (and not killed) and as long as local/global treasuries has dole? - would tend be lots of money i would imagine.

---
the monsters did go around eating people to gain troops.

[Tom]

As I said before, if Tom had said from the begging "I want to sink the island, but i want you all go down fighting and with honor" then I´d be ok with that.

I have said from the beginning that the island could sink, or it could not, it all depends on how things turn out.
I am really, really angry now. You better make yourself scarce for a while, because there is one thing I hate with a passion and that is people who are spreading lies even after they have been corrected on them multiple times.

[Naidraug]

I have said from the beginning that the island could sink, or it could not, it all depends on how things turn out.
I am really, really angry now. You better make yourself scarce for a while, because there is one thing I hate with a passion and that is people who are spreading lies even after they have been corrected on them multiple times.

I know that you said from the beginning that the island could sink. And i am not spreading lies.

Now what i said there was, that if you have said "The Island will sink." - just that. with out the "or it could not..." part, I'd be ok with that.

But adding the "or it could not" give everyone a hope that we can beat them, and as Geronus said on the above post, is not happening, and can be frustrating...

[Indirik]

mind you... eh.. perhaps it'll "live" as long as the locked account is around (and not killed) and as long as local/global treasuries has dole? - would tend be lots of money i would imagine.

A paused priest still counts as a priest for the purposes of maintaining a religion. Locked accounts are no exception.

[Pike]

I am a bit late into this discussion but I think tom means there will be no puzzle to instantly win the invasion.    There probably is little things we need to figure out in order to win.  Will it be easy no.  Will it be possible yes.  What is the point in complaining about how hard it is.  It is just a game.  Enjoy it for what it is.

[Galle]

There is a lot of complaining going on here, so I just wanted to say that I am thoroughly enjoying playing in this invasion, and I am not alone. It is frustrating at times, but that is the point, isn't it?

[Telrunya]

Exactly :)

[Tom]

There is a lot of complaining going on here, so I just wanted to say that I am thoroughly enjoying playing in this invasion, and I am not alone. It is frustrating at times, but that is the point, isn't it?

More than you realize. I wasn't going to say it to any of the whiners, but has it occured to people that Overlord is also employing psychological warfare? Some of the action are intended to frustrate his enemies. It's a fine line between character and player frustration, so I've not done everything possible, but IC there is every intention of creating a feeling of total helplesness.