Author Topic: Fifth Invasion  (Read 438019 times)

Sypher

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #390: January 13, 2012, 04:57:40 AM »
Yorick shared the letters he now has with all the other Judges so its available. I still can't believe that so many people apparently thought it was a good idea.

Geronus

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #391: January 13, 2012, 05:22:30 AM »
...which could have been part of the plan? If I were a con man, the first thing I'd try to make sure is that my information is the only one you get.

You are too used to 3rd and 4th invasion logic - that some NPC somewhere will tell you the plot, like a quest-giver in WoW. Rude awakening: The quest-giver has his own agenda.  ;D

But I know that I am dropping enough clues, making my actions and their consequences and the chains of causality clear enough, because I know that many of the important rules have already been concluded correctly by at least one person. So they can be concluded from the evidence available. Now given the various distrusts, hostilities, gaps in knowledge, loss of information, etc. etc. the task is certainly hard. But it's not impossible.

Oh, and do make sure you verify all your assumptions. It may not be the conclusions that are off, it may be the assumptions you start with. That you need a plot hook to survive the invasion may be one of them.


But the invasion so far is an extremely interesting social experiment. I think next time I'll call in a few psychology and sociology students and let them map out the flow of information amongs players. It is utterly fascinating. Can't say more without giving things away, unfortunately. Well, maybe one thing: Lots of people are wondering what the heck just happened in Villriil, even though some players know exactly what happened.

Lots of good points here. A couple of points of my own:

1. The con man did a masterful job. I don't know if it was coincidence or contrived, but he managed to look prophetic by predicting what would happen in Zuhle, so the obvious line of thinking goes that if we do nothing, the same thing will happen in Vilriil since he says the same thing is happening there. By that metric, we can hardly make things worse by trying something, right? Since after all if we do nothing again the region will still be blighted. Well it appears we were WRONG, but it's a very easy line of thinking to fall into.

2. It's only natural to assume that this Invasion will be similar to the ones that preceded it. Point taken however.

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #392: January 13, 2012, 07:59:23 AM »
Well if we are going to do something I say we take Piwani and Tey Gren back and smash those foul temples!

Tom

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #393: January 13, 2012, 09:32:42 AM »
Its like we trying to sink the island.

My thoughts exactly. I delayed several actions because I just couldn't believe you made it so easy for me. Also because there were the holidays inbetween and I understand lowered activity during that time.

Tom

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #394: January 13, 2012, 09:35:27 AM »
1. The con man did a masterful job. I don't know if it was coincidence or contrived, but he managed to look prophetic by predicting what would happen in Zuhle, so the obvious line of thinking goes that if we do nothing, the same thing will happen in Vilriil since he says the same thing is happening there. By that metric, we can hardly make things worse by trying something, right? Since after all if we do nothing again the region will still be blighted. Well it appears we were WRONG, but it's a very easy line of thinking to fall into.

Absolutely. That was carefully set up, and there are at least two if not three layers of misdirection. Basically, I put out tons of clues and evidence, and then I spend a lot of effort covering it up and otherwise making sure you miss it. It's great fun.

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #395: January 13, 2012, 10:31:56 AM »
My thoughts exactly. I delayed several actions because I just couldn't believe you made it so easy for me. Also because there were the holidays inbetween and I understand lowered activity during that time.

You know for what clues we should be looking, we don't. Which might give the wrong impression of hard/easy. Although I have to admit that my chars aren't actively involved and I only see what's posted to the realm.

Tom

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #396: January 13, 2012, 10:57:53 AM »
You know for what clues we should be looking, we don't. Which might give the wrong impression of hard/easy.

I am aware of that. I monitor closely what the players appear to know and where they are guessing wildly. And I try to drop hints to many people, not just individuals, so even if many of them ignore them, chances are one of them will pick it up.


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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #397: January 16, 2012, 02:17:52 PM »
Meanwhile on FEI where some people are being paranoid about daimons all the way on BT...

Southern logic once more comes up with an amazing rational explanation for the events happening on BT.

Let me explain to you why this is important.

BM is low fantasy, and it's more or less like our real world. Sure there are monsters, but we have real world "monsters" too. Ever take a look at deep sea fish? And I'm sure if you've ever been in southeast Asian jungles you'd call tigers monsters too. Point is, those aren't that farfetched. They're just normal animals that people haven't yet identified, since Linnaeus wouldn't be born in BM until a few centuries later to bring forth his nomenclature. Modern interpretations also believe that some ancient depictions of stuff like dragons and griffons and the such were actually artists' interpretations of reports from explorers of non-native species.

What about undead? Well, actually...There are real world voodoo rituals that create "zombies". And, well, premature burials weren't exactly uncommon back then either. So it's not that strange to think that some people you thought were dead really weren't, and just came back a while later (human body is actually pretty resilient and can survive for a while without food or water. It's exposure generally that kills fastest when a body is outside, and since the body is buried, it's certainly not being exposed too much...) There's also a modern interpretation of one aspect of the "walking dead". Shortly after death, as rigor sets in, the body twitches, making the corpse, in fact, move. While this does not occur long after death, injecting the muscles with ATP would delay the onset of rigor by preventing the muscles from clamping up. That might alter the timeline whereby someone sees a walking corpse.

Daimons? Now there's the thing. Modern interpretations of demonic possessions pin it on medical conditions (seizures) or drugs. What about seeing daimons? ...Drugs. Anyone played Uncharted 3 where Nate has to fight those fire demons that came from the "smokeless fire"? Yeah, those were illusions caused by drinking the water that inspired immense fear and scary hallucinations. But in the end, there were no actual demons. Just...demonic water...filled with drugs.

And that's Fred's explanation for the daimons in BT. And the Blight. The Blight's the huge area where the initial experiments to create a drug that would control the continent took place. The clouds? Obviously toxic fumes of who knows what weird chemicals were in those experiments. The land being mutilated? Yeah, pouring toxic waste into the soil does that. The strange creatures? Uh...you know those REAL WORLD reports about frogs living near polluted water that have strange mutations? Yeah....The daimons? Hallucinations since the entire continent's been exposed to the airborne hallucinogens. Though why do the daimons actually do damage? Two explanations. First, they do have actual forms, but not as daimons. In reality they may just be the drug creaters/experimenters. So Overlord would therefore be a druglord, and have a fitting name. And Nightfall, Midnight, etc, have to do with the progression of symptoms (Fading vision, blindness, death). Another explanation is that it doesn't matter whether it's real so long as the brain thinks it is. For all they know, people could be killing each other, thinking the other side was the daimons. Or it could be a combination. Fact is, this theory fits really well. And if it weren't for the fact that you're probably all too close-minded due to the fact that you think Mr. Tom guy says "This is the fact: There are daimons", you'd actually wonder whether what I said makes sense. But probably not...since, you know...Tom says those are real daimons or something.

So there you go. Y'all are Moulder, and I'm the Scully.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 02:25:41 PM by Artemesia »

Tom

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #398: January 16, 2012, 05:41:56 PM »
So there you go. Y'all are Moulder, and I'm the Scully.

The problem is that you ignore an important aspect - that BM is low fantasy, but not no-fantasy.

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #399: January 16, 2012, 06:19:23 PM »
Ah, it seems then that you are of the rather extreme opinion that our real world is in fact no-fantasy.

Marlboro

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #400: January 17, 2012, 05:07:13 AM »
Ah, it seems then that you are of the rather extreme opinion that our real world is in fact no-fantasy.

Interesting point.
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De-Legro

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #401: January 17, 2012, 05:13:07 AM »
Meanwhile on FEI where some people are being paranoid about daimons all the way on BT...

Southern logic once more comes up with an amazing rational explanation for the events happening on BT.

Let me explain to you why this is important.

BM is low fantasy, and it's more or less like our real world. Sure there are monsters, but we have real world "monsters" too. Ever take a look at deep sea fish? And I'm sure if you've ever been in southeast Asian jungles you'd call tigers monsters too. Point is, those aren't that farfetched. They're just normal animals that people haven't yet identified, since Linnaeus wouldn't be born in BM until a few centuries later to bring forth his nomenclature. Modern interpretations also believe that some ancient depictions of stuff like dragons and griffons and the such were actually artists' interpretations of reports from explorers of non-native species.

What about undead? Well, actually...There are real world voodoo rituals that create "zombies". And, well, premature burials weren't exactly uncommon back then either. So it's not that strange to think that some people you thought were dead really weren't, and just came back a while later (human body is actually pretty resilient and can survive for a while without food or water. It's exposure generally that kills fastest when a body is outside, and since the body is buried, it's certainly not being exposed too much...) There's also a modern interpretation of one aspect of the "walking dead". Shortly after death, as rigor sets in, the body twitches, making the corpse, in fact, move. While this does not occur long after death, injecting the muscles with ATP would delay the onset of rigor by preventing the muscles from clamping up. That might alter the timeline whereby someone sees a walking corpse.

Daimons? Now there's the thing. Modern interpretations of demonic possessions pin it on medical conditions (seizures) or drugs. What about seeing daimons? ...Drugs. Anyone played Uncharted 3 where Nate has to fight those fire demons that came from the "smokeless fire"? Yeah, those were illusions caused by drinking the water that inspired immense fear and scary hallucinations. But in the end, there were no actual demons. Just...demonic water...filled with drugs.

And that's Fred's explanation for the daimons in BT. And the Blight. The Blight's the huge area where the initial experiments to create a drug that would control the continent took place. The clouds? Obviously toxic fumes of who knows what weird chemicals were in those experiments. The land being mutilated? Yeah, pouring toxic waste into the soil does that. The strange creatures? Uh...you know those REAL WORLD reports about frogs living near polluted water that have strange mutations? Yeah....The daimons? Hallucinations since the entire continent's been exposed to the airborne hallucinogens. Though why do the daimons actually do damage? Two explanations. First, they do have actual forms, but not as daimons. In reality they may just be the drug creaters/experimenters. So Overlord would therefore be a druglord, and have a fitting name. And Nightfall, Midnight, etc, have to do with the progression of symptoms (Fading vision, blindness, death). Another explanation is that it doesn't matter whether it's real so long as the brain thinks it is. For all they know, people could be killing each other, thinking the other side was the daimons. Or it could be a combination. Fact is, this theory fits really well. And if it weren't for the fact that you're probably all too close-minded due to the fact that you think Mr. Tom guy says "This is the fact: There are daimons", you'd actually wonder whether what I said makes sense. But probably not...since, you know...Tom says those are real daimons or something.

So there you go. Y'all are Moulder, and I'm the Scully.

Scully's explanations are generally a bit more plausible then this. Other then trying to explain how if the entire continent is suffering from hallucinogens yet still manage to go about the daily requirements of tending the fields, operating the cities etc, exactly what process of medieval technology do you think is producing a toxic waste that would mutate the land so quickly?
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Heq

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #402: January 17, 2012, 06:13:30 AM »
To be fair, the FEI is super-religious in a lot of places, and ascribes a lot of things to supernatural motives.  Even if the world of Battlemaster were complete realistic, the beliefs of the people living in the medieval world was anything but rational and materialistic.

Norrel

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #403: January 17, 2012, 06:34:43 AM »
Ah, it seems then that you are of the rather extreme opinion that our real world is in fact no-fantasy.
I'm pretty sure that in the real world we don't periodically fight hordes of giant spiders that attack towns.
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De-Legro

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Re: Fifth Invasion
« Reply #404: January 17, 2012, 07:48:09 AM »
I'm pretty sure that in the real world we don't periodically fight hordes of giant spiders that attack towns.

We do in Australia, every summer.
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