Fifth Invasion

[Tom]

Sorry Tom but I just cannot not say my piece.

I appreciate it. I really do.

Some short replies:

Overlord does not instill fear.

How much of that is a perception issue? The Germans in WW2 did not smash through the Magginot line, but went around it. That caused much more fear in the french than any assault on the fortified line could possibly have done.

Also, my experience has been somewhat different. Some of the worst trash-talking happened after massive defeats for the human enemies. When they were victorious, there was much less trash-talking and much more roleplaying. Not black-white, there was a share of either in either case, but in the majority.

2. Fun.

Thanks. To be honest, the attack on the capitals was much more successful than I had anticipated. It was a gamble because some of them were heavily defended and most had strong fortifications. And there were pitched battles in several, that could easily have gone the other way with better strategy and luck on the players side. In two capitals, magic cast by players actually strengthened the Horrors, which was every bit the nasty surprise that I had planned it out to be, but it surprised me that the first one to experience it didn't tell anyone. The second and third repetitions could have been avoided with better communication.

As for the detour to Ossmat - I was extremely surprised to not find half the OG army in it. I had announced the route Overlord would take the moment he left Firbalt, and it passed right by Ossmat. After almost every other capital had been attacked, I thought that was as obvious as I could make it without actually writing "oh, btw., I will sack Ossmat en route". Apparently, I was mistaken. To my mind, I dropped lots and lots of hints, from Overlord talking about him picking the battlefield to the fact that he's taking the long route at all when he could move into the Blight near Firbalt and emerge just north of Unger. But, apparently, it was not as obvious from a player perspective.

Sorry, but this is not what invasions are about. Not even one where the very survival of the continent is at stake, especially not that one. They have always been about fighting impossible odds. And since the third, interacting with the invaders, provoking them, boasting against them, making deals with them, whatever. Any of those actions however had IG effects. Now... they don't.

And that is just very disillusioning.

I said when it started out that every invasion has a topic. The last one had intrigue and multiple-faction-diplomacy. This one has (I think I can say it by now) brutal, unforgiving warfare and attrition.

It is just not the death that BT deserves. BT deserves to die in a series of epic, close battles and mutual taunting. Battles in which humanity musters all that it
possibly can just for a tiny chance at victory.

What makes you think that isn't yet coming?

Despite all the regions lost, human realms are still a lot stronger than they believe. I am surprised at how little impact the multi-day looting and destroying had. I thought that the rampage of all Daimon minions before the horrors appeared would put parts of BT into starvation - I was intentionally attacking the food stores with everything I had, including lots of magic. Not even close.

I am quite confident that there are still epic battles to come.

[Marlboro]

Unger sent all the food and booze to Duke Outo when they figured out the Daimons were raiding it...

They got SOME of the food back!

[LilWolf]

I am surprised at how little impact the multi-day looting and destroying had. I thought that the rampage of all Daimon minions before the horrors appeared would put parts of BT into starvation - I was intentionally attacking the food stores with everything I had, including lots of magic. Not even close.

To be fair that's sort of your own fault

You gave everyone a lot of extra food when you introduced the new food trade system. That surplus is still living on. You'd probably have had to loot half the regions of BT empty of food to see some starvation.

[Tom]

To be fair that's sort of your own fault

You gave everyone a lot of extra food when you introduced the new food trade system. That surplus is still living on. You'd probably have had to loot half the regions of BT empty of food to see some starvation.

To be fair, I pretty much did. The rampage went on for several days, and I destroyed at least 20,000 bushels of food in that time, probably more. The Daimons hit the rural regions and infiltrators with scrolls of Decay hit the cities. I even had that ritual to make the weather bad. And still... wow.

[D`Este]

And now with blighted cities the food won't be a problem at all

[Lorgan]

How much of that is a perception issue? The Germans in WW2 did not smash through the Magginot line, but went around it. That caused much more fear in the french than any assault on the fortified line could possibly have done.

I don't think it's the action itself that caused the fear. It's the fact that the entire German army was then suddenly marching through France without having met much opposition and continued to obliterate any resistance. They did not avoid their gathered opponents. They destroyed them. And it was this destruction that lead to the whole nation panicking and fleeing before the encroaching invaders.

The daimons are already on BT, they don't have Maginot lines to circumvent, quite the opposite actually.

Also, my experience has been somewhat different. Some of the worst trash-talking happened after massive defeats for the human enemies. When they were victorious, there was much less trash-talking and much more roleplaying. Not black-white, there was a share of either in either case, but in the majority.

Hmm. Maybe that's because they feel like they've got nothing to lose anymore... No idea really, I know I've only started trash-talking after victories...

In two capitals, magic cast by players actually strengthened the Horrors, which was every bit the nasty surprise that I had planned it out to be, but it surprised me that the first one to experience it didn't tell anyone. The second and third repetitions could have been avoided with better communication.

That's the first I'm hearing about it... Well except for that time that I cast a spell of fear on Overlord's troops and he told my char that had just strengthened his forces... but who is going to trust Overlord, right?

As for the detour to Ossmat - I was extremely surprised to not find half the OG army in it. I had announced the route Overlord would take the moment he left Firbalt, and it passed right by Ossmat. After almost every other capital had been attacked, I thought that was as obvious as I could make it without actually writing "oh, btw., I will sack Ossmat en route". Apparently, I was mistaken. To my mind, I dropped lots and lots of hints, from Overlord talking about him picking the battlefield to the fact that he's taking the long route at all when he could move into the Blight near Firbalt and emerge just north of Unger. But, apparently, it was not as obvious from a player perspective.

It really wasn't. We expected you to be cryptic like when you chose the first realm to destroy. When you just flat out said "I'm marching to Unger without any detours." there was nothing cryptic about it and thus it was perceived as the truth. Of course some of us were still wary but those of us in Thalmarkin really did as much as we could to rally our allies and Old Grehk - among others - answered.

I said when it started out that every invasion has a topic. The last one had intrigue and multiple-faction-diplomacy. This one has (I think I can say it by now) brutal, unforgiving warfare and attrition.

Nice.

What makes you think that isn't yet coming?

Despite all the regions lost, human realms are still a lot stronger than they believe. I am surprised at how little impact the multi-day looting and destroying had. I thought that the rampage of all Daimon minions before the horrors appeared would put parts of BT into starvation - I was intentionally attacking the food stores with everything I had, including lots of magic. Not even close.

I am quite confident that there are still epic battles to come.

I really hope so. I'm not saying that we're all weak already. Just... it's extremely hard to make those individual numbers merge into a coordinated survival effort. If we're mobile we cannot defend our cities, and if we're not mobile, our allies' undefended cities would get blighted, both paths would lead to obliteration without much battles as most realms would choose for immobility so they could at least keep sustaining that army.
Anyway, I'm very glad to see the new challenge from Overlord. And if he's not lying this time: thanks!

This is going to be one epic battle.

Unger sent all the food and booze to Duke Outo when they figured out the Daimons were raiding it...

They got SOME of the food back!

You have 666 bushels of food stored. 

[Lorgan]

Also, my experience has been somewhat different. Some of the worst trash-talking happened after massive defeats for the human enemies. When they were victorious, there was much less trash-talking and much more roleplaying. Not black-white, there was a share of either in either case, but in the majority.

Oh by the way, there were actually plenty of roleplays yesterday in Unger in preparation of the siege.

One noble roleplaying the birth of his son and immediately sending him away out of the dangerous city and off the island, another sighing in desperation at all the green recruits that were to defend the city and then also an advy-bard performing some songs before the amassed nobles (not sure if it was the same that offended you while he was in prison but I thought he actually did a pretty damn good job with the songs he's written. ). A lot of fun to read.

[Tom]

That's the first I'm hearing about it... Well except for that time that I cast a spell of fear on Overlord's troops and he told my char that had just strengthened his forces... but who is going to trust Overlord, right?

Yeah, but that was just some roleplaying fun. In the Banishment scroll cases, I posted an Event and actually visibly increased the number of horrors (for every 1 destroyed, there were 2 afterwards).

Anyway, I'm very glad to see the new challenge from Overlord. And if he's not lying this time: thanks!

Overlord never, ever lies...

No, why should I lie when everyone expects it? Lying is only worth the effort when everyone expects you to say the truth.

[Marlboro]

No, why should I lie when everyone expects it? Lying is only worth the effort when everyone expects you to say the truth.

"A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective."
-The Art of War

Perhaps we've just been playing with him the whole time, and it's just about curtains for Overlord!

[Lorgan]

Yeah, but that was just some roleplaying fun. In the Banishment scroll cases, I posted an Event and actually visibly increased the number of horrors (for every 1 destroyed, there were 2 afterwards).

 

I wonder if that has something to do with removing the Light when we blighted Villriil... So far for the whole advy guild we've set up and new position we've created... (at least for during the invasion!)

Overlord never, ever lies...

No, why should I lie when everyone expects it? Lying is only worth the effort when everyone expects you to say the truth.

Now we don't expect it though... vicious circle.

[Daycryn]

For me, I once RP'd my character with slightly ... less than appropriate? ... interactions with Overlord. This was mainly because I OOCly did not know who Overlord was other than one of the commanders of the bad guys, and I certainly didn't know he was in the form of a large monstrous evil beast. While I could and should have asked other players OOCly or even ICly what he was like and all, it might be helpful to clarify his basic description on the wiki, or perhaps even in the game itself somehow; that would help avoid the situation where a BT-newbie like me mistakenly assumes him to be just an evil humanoid and reacts that way.

[Thunthorn]

Up until the last offensive Overlord has very much come out as a bag of hot air, whose successes in the war has been through mind games and magic rather than battlefield prowess. When it has come to actual battle it has been quite possible to beat down the Daimons, which has made his rants quite easy to ridicule. That doesn't mean that being tortured in his dungeon should inspire any suicidal behaviour.

The last offensive with horrors and all has sort of changed that though.

[Geronus]

Yeah, they've been kind of a big hammer. Used with proper strategy, as it seems they currently are, we have no chance. The evidence has shown that only a very strong army behind very strong walls has a chance against one of those forces. However, we can't put very strong forces into every city, and Tom has three of these armies to play with (in the north alone; the south is completely screwed unless Riombara pulls out a miracle defense a la Thalmarkin). If he really wanted to (and it seems that he does), he could just systematically walk into all the cities that we're NOT in and take them, then hit us hard in the places we've collected all our strength. By that point though we'll be low on gold and recruits due to the loss of resources and some realms won't even have capitals left.

This problem is made worse by the daimon ability to travel fast through the blight. They can ALWAYS hit us where we aren't unless we divide our forces to the point where they cannot possibly stand up to the attacking daimon armies. I just wasted quite a few words explaining to Riombara how stupid it is to chase after Darkest Hour of the South when he can simply pop into the blight near Fheuvnem and then pop back out a day later in Ajitmon or Ardmore while our army is still stuck in Sandlakes. Grrr.

As it is, I think our only shot now is to gather what strength we have and wait for them to come to us. If we try a mobile defense we will fail. The Horrors are far too strong to take down in the open field, and they are far too fast for us to have a hope of forcing them to fight on our terms until we are down to so few cities that they have no choice but to assault them. Which is unfortunate I think because it essentially nullifies our ability to make strategic choices. The only choices we have are bad ones. Go there and the daimons will simply go somewhere else (Unger vs. Ossmat). Go here and they'll go there. You see? No good choices. All we can do is make the greatest strongholds we can and then hope that Overlord is foolish enough to attack them with one of his armies at a time instead of collecting them into one place, and hope that once his Horrors are gone that he has nothing left...

[OFaolain]

We could have played it smart, and stationed our armies between the two (in Vatrona for instance); that way, we could have reacted quickly no matter which capital got hit.  Unfortunately, we got caught with our (expletives) out in Thalmarkin and Ossmat got sacked for it.  If we use scouts to get a bead on where the daimons are once they leave the blight, our consolidated force stationed in a stronghold like Vatrona should be able to react in time to reach whatever city they're targeting, assuming they're targeting a city.  Would have to periodically cycle to a city but it's the best I can think of off-hand.

[Chenier]

I think we used the wrong tactics, but that's just me.

With the Charger/Archers you should use all the infantry possible. Ties up the chargers and prevents the archers from screaming death onto you. We had way to many archers in that battle. We managed to wound Midnight and I'm guessing with a full infantry regiment, we likely could have killed him and taken out ALL the horrors.

Battle, for those interested: http://battlemaster.org/ShowScribeNote.php?ID=518782&Hash=352fa508dbb69d78

Our army wasn't tailored for that encounter. They came way after we recruited. Too many archers? Perhaps. But the question is more of how to better use our force, as unit types are an IR after all.

Everyone just calls them IVF. I bet even Chenier calls it IVF The Daimons were in Melegra earlier, got beaten and captured, and blighted Grehk once Midnight of the South escaped. The Daimons have been concentrating on the North as the strongest opponent, but the South is getting action as well.

I don't, actually, I just said I didn't mind people calling it that, once. I always call it "Fheuv'n". The rest of the name is a descriptor, it's Russian for "Imperial Host of".

Also, we get pounded regularly. Every time we get back in shape to help Enweil, there's either 4000 CS of undead that appears scattered in our realm and/or a large horde coming to start another TO to blight another region and decimate our mobile forces anew. We didn't find in many campaigns abroad because every time we went to do so, we were threatened at home.

Lots of undead travel from the blight, plus we barely have any advies to prevent spawns in our own regions.

To be fair, I pretty much did. The rampage went on for several days, and I destroyed at least 20,000 bushels of food in that time, probably more. The Daimons hit the rural regions and infiltrators with scrolls of Decay hit the cities. I even had that ritual to make the weather bad. And still... wow.

Cities are now smaller. Food supply seems to have generally increased since the pop and food changes. It was never really an issue to begin with on BT, either.

Up until the last offensive Overlord has very much come out as a bag of hot air, whose successes in the war has been through mind games and magic rather than battlefield prowess. When it has come to actual battle it has been quite possible to beat down the Daimons, which has made his rants quite easy to ridule. That doesn't mean that beaing tortured in his dungeon should inspire any suicidal behaviour.

The last offensive with horrors and all has sort of changed that though.

I gotta say, if many didn't fear Overlord, his continuous defeats surely played a role in it. He kept gloating, and kept getting his forces defeated in random unspectacular battles. He always appeared as more bluff than anything.

That being said, personally, I enjoy this invasion a lot more than the last one and the second half on the one before that one.