So why not play in Atamara?
Isn't it exactly that 'frontier feeling' you get on Dwilight that makes it one of the only continents with a stable/increasing noble population?
I'd like to see rogue spawns take a surge as well. Even if we're not ready for it.
Dwilight is big enough and the frontier mentality entrenched enough that PvP conflict would result in enough realms being destroyed regularly enough that wilderness would always remain somewhere.
How much have you tried interacting with them? The Zuma could say the same about Terran. Also, who has said that the Zuma are there to maintain disorder? (please do read this response as a whole and not take individual comments on their own as they do relate to other points later on as well)
My records of the last 30 days (which does not include the actual height of the fiasco) show that I've sent almost 10,000 words of letters to Garret and Haktoo. My correspondence has diminished during these 30 days from previously. If you're seriously saying I haven't tried interacting, then I'm going to go ahead and make the similarly ludicrous statement that you're not actually the Zuma GM. I've gone and sat in Nightscree/Nightmarch a half dozen times over the last 8 months for days on end, with almost nothing to come of it.
And Garret as much as said, both IC and OOC (though he's so "mysterious" he'll probably weasel out of it) that the Zuma are there to maintain disorder.
There is always a reason why the Zuma have done what they have done - it is not spontaneous. As to how they respond to things, you do need to remember that they are not human, are not noble. Why should they be behaving as if they are?
I'm getting really tired of that line. It's stupid. It's an SMA continent. Cool, not human, not noble, whatever. My character is human, and is noble. How you expect me to come up with any kind of plausible RP that involves interesting interaction between the characters while still being SMA is perplexing.
Dealing with the Zuma is not going to be easy.
Really? What a surprise.
Enough hints have been given over the years and some players certainly have understood and have gained through their interactions. Please do not make sweeping statements just because things have not gone how you wanted them to.
No, you don't get it. Things basically have gone as I wanted them to. From my perspective OOCly and Hireshmont's perspective ICly, things are going swimmingly. There has not yet been a point where the Zuma meaningfully interfered with my plans. Rather, they're just annoying. They create peace and stability, which is exactly what Hireshmont wants. But what I as a player want is some kind of conflict, when all the Zuma do is create the perfect conditions for kum-bay-ya diplomacy.
You weren't summoned, you were told if you wanted to speak you would have to do so in person. Then, when you did get there, you'd clearly already decided it was a waste of your time, had a couple of messages then went into an OOC rant because you didn't like the responses, then left.
I no longer have the messages I sent prior to my OOC "Rant," but I don't remember it as a "couple." I remember sitting in Nightmarch and Nightscree for over a week, sending messages and RPs every single day, and getting no response. And I left after Haktoo stopped responding.
Seriously, you never even tried to do anything. The whole torture thing was to attempt to get the characters to think about having to torture one of their own for no reason but to appease someone else. Moral conflict and all that.
So you admit that you as a GM just had some pre-defined and basically arbitrary thing that you wanted us to do for reasons our characters could not hope to understand? "Why does Haktoo want us to torture one of our own?" "Don't you know, Hireshmont? Haktoo thrives on moral dilemmas!" Once again a case where Haktoo has a shocking understanding that characters have players behind them.
And that's the problem. You as a GM seem to have just come up with what you want to happen without reference to what is already happening, and without reference to the RPs of most characters. Maybe that's only a semblance that isn't the case. Which doesn't make me particularly angry, it's just uninteresting, and not worth interacting with. You say we should interact: cool. I've tried. It was boring. Maybe if my trying wasn't enough you should write up a manual, because I'm honestly not sure what more I could have done.
If you'd tried interaction at the start, you might have actually got somewhere. Their does need to be some effort on the part of the players you know.
Again, I'm curious about your apparent selective perception. I have repeatedly interacted with Haktoo. I'm perplexed what constitutes "interaction" if multiple visits, diplomatic agreements, and thousands of words of letters isn't interaction. Is there an "Interact with the GM" button I'm missing somewhere?
As I have said many times, everything the Zuma do is based upon interaction with characters. Nothing has been done on a 'whim'. Your attitude, and shouting it loudly to get everyone else to listen, gets people to make views on the Zuma based on speculation and inaccuracy.
Yeah; Haktoo got one forgery that everyone knew was a forgery, and so went to war with two realms without even telling them why. That is indeed based upon interaction with characters. You're right. It is. It is also a wee bit asymmetric, and has a chilling effect. If I wanted to scheme against the Zuma, frankly, I wouldn't. Too much chance of a message being forwarded. Or I would do it on IRC or something. I don't sent private messages anymore to almost any characters; I always make sure to have multiple recipients, at least one or two of which who I am pretty sure would vouch for me. I do this because of interactions I've had with characters; namely, discovering that there is a character known to command an army somewhere in the range of 5-10 times the size of Terran's who will attack a realm, any realm apparently in Iashalur's case, based, literally, on obviously forged hearsay or one idle comment.
Some players successfully understand them, as is demonstrated by some things that are currently going on (and no, I won't go into any of that as it is all IC things that people will become aware of if they find out about it in game). You clearly don't understand them, and because they haven't done things the way you want them to, have gone into a big negativity campaign.
No, this isn't a big negativity campaign. This is pretty mild by my standards. I'm happy for the people who are successfully understanding whatever it is the Zuma are doing. Neat for them. I hope they have fun playing ZumaBM.
It's not Beluaterra, I'm not there to just wipe out the players, but I am there. Some people get it, others, such as yourself, so far don't.
I'd rather you did wipe out players, personally. That would at least be interesting.
The fact that they have been on Dwilight since its creation kind of hints that they are meant to be there, and are probably VERY important to the vision of Dwilight as Tom saw it.
And Tom's vision of Dwilight now is that it was a mistake. Which means maybe I'm disagreeing with Tom's vision of Dwilight; I think maybe it's become something very much different and probably quite a bit better than he imagined.
Having had some dealing with the Zuma I can say they aren't just sitting around waiting to smash any nobles silly enough to cross them. A little common sense is required here, Tom didn't go to the effort of adding them to the game for such a trivial purpose, nor has the GM spent his time over YEARS if all he needed to do was click the travel button on his massive units every now and then.
I agree with you entirely on every point, and have not said anything against any of that. My point is that I would rather they were just rampaging around killing everything instead of having the chilling effect they have now of basically making sure nothing happens. Want to know why Terran is cozying up with Kabrinskia? The Zuma. Want to know why the Moot has stopped arguing about Madina vs. Aurvandil? The Zuma. Want to know why we've decided to help out Asylon with settling their lands, instead of competing for lands we could take? The Zuma. They shut down conflict at every turn, then harp on the most uninteresting conflicts of all.
The Zuma can be vague, but they aren't necessarily so. There is no need to spend hours deciphering stuff, but like all things, some players will happen upon the right path quickly ( either due to inspiration, luck or a perhaps they just have a different mindset/outlook) while others will take longer. It does appear to me that those characters that HAVE the preconceived idea about the Zuma being some unstoppable force that exist to threaten the realms of Dwilight, seem to have greater difficultly getting to the core of the Zuma purpose.
I don't spend hours deciphering things. I take most interactions with the Zuma at face value. That's how I got to where I am.
Again, I don't think the Zuma are necessarily unstoppable. I think that from all appearances their combat mechanics appear identical to those of the daimons on Beluaterra, and that the armies necessary to contain them do not yet exist on Dwilight. I don't think they exist solely to threaten the realms of Dwilight. For all I know they might exist to encourage BM players to create an entire continent where daimons are normalized like Sirionite Elves on EC, making some kind of great ideological rift in humanity between those who are friendly with daimons on Dwilight or hate daimons on Beluaterra. Maybe.
But the point is that I don't much care about the Zuma's core purpose; I care that all of the behavior they have exhibited ultimately stifles the most enjoyable gameplay aspects for myself, most of the players in the realm of which my character is the ruler, and many other players of characters with whom my characters frequently interact. Yes, I am complaining. I am giving very negative feedback: Zuma GM-- maybe some people are interacting with you and having a great time. But for the several dozen nobles who could be out imperializing Aurvandil or Madina, or harassing Kabrinskia, or invading Luria, or founding a colony in Sallowtown, or who knows what.... they are now sitting around hoarding gold, never going far from home, always ready to respond to whatever next week's Zuma crisis could be. That has been the result of the Zuma's recent decisions in their "near abroad." Maybe the response has been very different elsewhere; could be, I don't know.
And.... I don't understand how Artemesia's post is relevant. He seems to be implying that the proper way to play on Dwilight is not colonize, not wage war, hunker down, and play a maintenance game. I will be very discouraged if that is actually the case. No, I will be discouraged if there is a "proper way to play on Dwilight."
Edit: Accidentally misattributed a quote through copy-pasting; fixed now.
