Dwilight losing its saltiness?

[De-Legro]

It's funny how some of the people here seem to know...

Some might, after all SOME of are Dev's and from time to time need to work on the code. I personally don't know the specifics of it. I've seen bits and pieces of related code when I was looking at something else, but I certainly can't say what all the restrictions are.

Some others might know cause they have gotten to the IC stage that the Zuma are sharing some of there secrets, I'm not sure if anyone has managed that.

If you want to make some accusations about Dev Members abusing their position though, please don't hide behind vague statements. Come out and say if you think people are cheating. After all I'm sure a ex multi cheat would know all about it.

[Glaumring the Fox]

De-Legro, Fu-Zuma-off very much thankyou. Lets emphasis 'Ex' multicheat, who had one other account like 3 years ago when I was a noob and first started playing. How many accounts you still rocking?

Hey, Im just pissed the Zumans are f***** Chinese puzzle-box and no matter what we try to do to solve the puzzle we are cold cocked back to square one. Essentially the Zumans are ghosts, they have no meaning asides from being big f**** ghosts with huge armies that will crush us and bully us whenever they want and whenever we say something back to them they just say 'U dumb human no understand Zuma ways ho ho ho"

My kingdom will not interact with the Zumans ever again if this is the case, we have learned our lessonb, for nothing the Zumans say or write is worth !@#$.

[Solari]

Another point: it's not as though the Zuma were foisted upon the realms of southwest Dwilight.  People knew they were there.  People knew they weren't to be trifled with, knew that they do interact with you when approached, albeit cryptically sometimes.  You don't get to complain about how a situation that has always existed is somehow only now unfair.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Yeah exactly why Asylon had a peace agreement and land treaties, because you know we thought we had to you know have good relations with the Zumans, you know? Which do not mean !@#$ anyways because we'll never understand the Zumans anyways.

[Solari]

Yeah exactly why Asylon had a peace agreement and land treaties, because you know we thought we had to you know have good relations with the Zumans, you know? Which do not mean !@#$ anyways because we'll never understand the Zumans anyways.

You're overreacting, acting on partial information, AND being an offensive jerk about it.  If you're only going to correct one of these, please try and make it the third one.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I apologize for the offense jerk stuff.

I just wish that the treaties and peace we had meant something IG and I am a bit annoyed that our realm is being treated the way it is being treated after a whole bunch of stuff we have tried to do to make relations better. Its annoying because we actually tried and now we are being told that we 'Dont understand the Zuma' and all our treaties were basically signed with the 'Ambassador of the Zuma' only. Its annoying because we might as well have stayed on the same footing as Terran and Barca, hell it was a mistake to even try and figure them out, it means nothing, the one thing Dwilight can learn from their interactions with the Zuma is that it means absolutely nothing at all.

[De-Legro]

I apologize for the offense jerk stuff.

I just wish that the treaties and peace we had meant something IG and I am a bit annoyed that our realm is being treated the way it is being treated after a whole bunch of stuff we have tried to do to make relations better. Its annoying because we actually tried and now we are being told that we 'Dont understand the Zuma' and all our treaties were basically signed with the 'Ambassador of the Zuma' only. Its annoying because we might as well have stayed on the same footing as Terran and Barca, hell it was a mistake to even try and figure them out, it means nothing, the one thing Dwilight can learn from their interactions with the Zuma is that it means absolutely nothing at all.

Cause you know, HUMAN relams NEVER ignore treaties. Or end them as soon as they serve their purposes. No human realm ever decides another realm is no longer worth having treaties with, or is so ignoble that all previous treaties are now void.

This ignore the fact that pretty much the first and BASE treaty of Asylon was broken by the revolt. Asylon was only allowed to govern those lands so long as the looked after the native human tribes and held there respect. Regions revolting against your lordship might imply failure in that regard. Once a foundation treaty is broken, how much wait does any subsequent treaty still hold?

De-Legro, Fu-Zuma-off very much thankyou. Lets emphasis 'Ex' multicheat, who had one other account like 3 years ago when I was a noob and first started playing. How many accounts you still rocking?

Sorry, never multi cheated. This account is the first and only account I've played, and it has never been locked, ever.My wife thinks I spend too much time playing a single account, no way I'm going to get away with playing more even if I had the inclination. If you think otherwise report it to the titans. If you are going to continue to slander and make baseless accusations, then at least do it in game were there is some recourse against fools making false accusations of cheating.

[Dante Silverfire]

Here's one thing I don't understand:

Everyone that is currently living near the Zuma did so by choice. The Zuma were there way before you ever created your realm there. They have been there since the creation of Dwilight (or very very soon thereafter) and it has been known by everyone where their main base of operations is.

If someone chooses to settle next to someone who is an unknown level of threat, then they need to deal with that. If you choose to colonize a city far away from other realms, then you have to deal with extra rogues fighting you. If you rebel against your ruler, then you also have to deal with those consequences.

The simple idea is that each of these realms that are now "having" to interact with the Zuma chose to do so. I could have easily had my character join in the expedition that created some of those realms that are now so easily able to be destroyed by the Zuma, but instead had them stay in Luria even though I could have had one of the ruling characters. What I'm trying to say is that the players all understood clearly what they could be getting themselves into when they made their decisions. Perhaps new players joining the realms later first starting the game did not, but the leaders knew and were aware.

Finally, there ARE ways to deal with the Zuma and there ARE goals that they have. Some people on Dwilight do have a decent idea of what these are. If they don't tell those that could use the information the most, well perhaps IC and SMA wise, that is a strategic decision or more helpful for them.

[Telrunya]

and all our treaties were basically signed with the 'Ambassador of the Zuma' only.

Actually, that part is something the Zuma have let known in the past (At least my character Marche figured that out eventually). You can't 100% rely on the Ambassador's words being the Zuma's. If you really want to interact with the Zuma, you have to talk to them directly.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

* Artemesia looks around. Wonders if he should somewhat settle the matter since he's not technically a member of the Dev Team and probably isn't bound to keeping mum about aspects of the code he just happened to accidentally bump across.

So...first, about the whole rules thing: Nothing new. I find it odd that people complain about the daimons so vocally with the thought that it makes a difference, but not many people anymore are complaining about how rogue spawns are unfair (Well they did before but that was more along the lines of how much they "randomly" spawned rather than "the guy controlling them is too powerful")

That's technically not true. In some very distant but still present sense, whoever injects the monster/undead spawn code is indirectly controlling your rogue fates. But you guys don't have a convenient target for that. And so the result is that you end up dealing with the monsters and undead as a matter of course.

Ok, so you say that the daimons are being controlled by a player who can think and coordinate attacks. First of all, how many of you have seen how the daimons move? How often have you seen their attack methods, or tactics? I won't share this, but I'm sure there are people out there who'd be happy to explain all the details about how they actually move. Whether this is mechanical or voluntary isn't something I care to speculate about.

Now about the whole units popping out of regions that have "poor stats": Those stats really only matter for humans. Ever wonder where those monsters and undead are popping out from in rogue regions that have zeros across the board and one population (contributed by that contractually invincible one peasant). Has it occurred to any of you that there are stats that humans can't see? Obviously it should have, because adventurers get vague hints at those "hidden" stats when they investigate the monster/undead situation.

Are the daimons restricted by something similar? I'm just a normal player, never been privy to the stuff the Dev Team has, never been an NPC player, never read Tom's mind. Anything and everything I know was gained and deduced by the same methods available to all of you. The fact that I am sitting in the Zuma Coalition means nothing because I am not the GM, I am not privy to any special information, and most of all, there are certain mechanics in place that prevent me from actually seeing some stuff.

And I'm not even one of the smarter players, so you wonder what the more observant and sharper ones have figured out. People can think I'm a jerk, but you know, the ones who will end up actually messing up your happy poo poo are the smart ones who stay silent and watch while you flail about and manipulate things in their safe little corners, all of us none the wiser.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Actually, that part is something the Zuma have let known in the past (At least my character Marche figured that out eventually). You can't 100% rely on the Ambassador's words being the Zuma's. If you really want to interact with the Zuma, you have to talk to them directly.

I don't think enough people know or fully comprehend that it is generally safer to talk to Garret than a daimon. Let me give you an example that I think is quite descriptive and clear.

The Mysterious Island

You are an explorer who has sailed far away from your homeland. After weeks you and your crew have at last discovered a remote but fairly large island. Once you disembark, you discover evidence that there are other humans living here. You continue to investigate until you come across a village unlike any you have ever seen.

The buildings look primitive and strange. The people have differently colored skin, dress in odd garments, and are painted in all sorts of bright colors that make you feel dizzy. They make noises from their mouths that you cannot understand. You are surrounded by these people until someone speaks in a language you understand.

He looks like you. Dresses a bit less fancily, but nevertheless it is something you have seen. He talks like you, even knows some of your homeland's customs. But you do not really trust him, for good reason, because you do not know how he came to be among these strange people and why he alone of the people like you, outsiders, is able to live there.

He tells you that the people here are humans like him and you. He furthermore tells you that they worship ancient beings that are powerful and terrible to behold. You are curious and decide you want to talk directly to those ancient beings. He tries to persuade you not to, for he says that they are not human and would not understand or care about human concerns like he can.

But you do not listen and go anyway. You find that there are in fact several of these beings and they match the description of dinosaurs that some of your paleontologists have discovered the remains of. You are fascinated, and you approach one of them.

It is a Brontosaurus, a herbivore, whose neck stretches far like a bridge over the canopy of trees. Its body is massive, and its legs like pillars supporting a monument to gods unknown to your kind. You are lucky, for it looks at you, listens to you talk, and simply turns away and leaves. Sound like thunder accompanies its every step.

You are not satisfied. Surely if those beings are worshiped by the strange humans you encountered before, then they are intelligent? The human who looked like you even said as much. You decide you must receive a response from one of them.

Then you meet another one of these beings. Before you can react, you feel a sharp pain, as though your body has been torn in half. The last thing you see before your vision fades completely is a maw of many massive teeth sharp as daggers and several times as large. It is a Tyranosaur.

Good job, explorer. You have become a meal for one of the natives' gods.

End of story. Please return to page 1 and start your adventure again.

[Telrunya]

Oh That's for sure. Garret does play an important role as Ambassador. But that doesn't mean that if you agree on something with Garret, you automatically always agree on something with the Zuma :) Some (/Most) matters are better discussed with Garret, some with the Zuma themselves. You just need to know how to talk to them and how to behave around them. And that's one heck of a difficult thing. Had my character not approached Garret in the beginning with matters and instead had gone to the Zuma directly, I'm pretty sure D'Hara would have at least been very close to suffering another Zuma attack.

[Shizzle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, Haktoo is a daimon. And she has intitated contact with humans, even talking to them in their own language. Furthermore, for as far as I know, there's no way to contact the people that live under the daimon rule.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Haktoo's like the calm herbivore that can still stomp you to a little pulp if needed. But probably would at least listen to what you have to say.

There are daimonic "carnivores", believe me. Garret doesn't dare to approach them either.

[Geronus]

Cause you know, HUMAN relams NEVER ignore treaties. Or end them as soon as they serve their purposes. No human realm ever decides another realm is no longer worth having treaties with, or is so ignoble that all previous treaties are now void.

This ignore the fact that pretty much the first and BASE treaty of Asylon was broken by the revolt. Asylon was only allowed to govern those lands so long as the looked after the native human tribes and held there respect. Regions revolting against your lordship might imply failure in that regard. Once a foundation treaty is broken, how much wait does any subsequent treaty still hold?


Sorry, never multi cheated. This account is the first and only account I've played, and it has never been locked, ever.My wife thinks I spend too much time playing a single account, no way I'm going to get away with playing more even if I had the inclination. If you think otherwise report it to the titans. If you are going to continue to slander and make baseless accusations, then at least do it in game were there is some recourse against fools making false accusations of cheating.

There's a difference here, and it's not insignificant. The difference is that when a human realm, led by PLAYERS, decides not to honor a treaty it generates player versus players conflict, which as we all know is good for BM. When an NPC realm, led by a faceless GM, decides not to honor a treaty, it leads to the human realm feeling screwed, witness Glaumring's reaction to it all. After all, it's not like Asylon can turn to military conflict to redress the grievance they now have, because the Zuma are overwhelmingly powerful in that department. Instead, it's like the GM is saying 'HA! Gotcha! You should have been more careful, and because you weren't it's your own fault that now we're screwing you! Nyah nyah!'

Can anyone here seriously NOT see why that wouldn't piss someone off? All you people who are defending the Zuma don't generally have to deal with them IC (except for Artemesia who doesn't count because he works for them), and as far as I know none of you choose to do so. On the other hand the people that do complain are generally the ones that do. That is pretty notable, don't you think?