On archer range

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Yeah, it happens sometimes. Did I ever mention how I once had a really large really strong range 5 unit that still moved forward when deployed in the middle against a small group of dug-in monsters?

Wind might play a role, although that might not always be the case. I guess sometimes sudden myopia sets in.

[Indirik]

Even better is when they move closer to get better shots on the first round, retreat from nearby close combat on the second round, then for the rest of the battle don't shoot because the enemy is all engaged in close combat.  ::)

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Ah, some ranged units can fire even when there's a melee going on. I think...maybe.

[Anaris]

The combat AI in general needs a lot of improvement.  This is not news to the devs  :P

Trouble is, it's not as simple as it sounds.  There's a lot of different factors that go into why units behave as they do in combat.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

At a certain point, one would think we're asking for sentient AI.  :o

[Anaris]

At a certain point, one would think we're asking for sentient AI.  :o

Sure. But that point is at least a parsec off ;)

[Forbes Family]

On a related note, in a battle this recent turn my archer unit made a very stupid move. On the first turn, with a range of four and enemies only three lines away, my archers moved closer to "get better shots". My unit were the only archers that moved forward. So not only did they waste a turn, they were then sitting out alone in front of the archer group and was targeted by every enemy archer unit for two turns (814 hits received first turn after the move, 1037 on the second) until my unit resembled a mound of porcupine corpses. I ask you, why did they move forward? That's just about the stupidest move they could possibly have chosen. My line settings were the same as every one else's.

This is a quote from Tom in the April fools joke

* Archers
Everyone knows that archers really are wimps, too afraid to face the
enemy in real combat. Archer units engaged in close combat have a
random chance of doing either of the below:
- fight
- immediately surrender
- attempt to bury a hole to hide in
- offer themselves to the enemy as sex slaves if only they are spared
  (they will then act much like a baggage train)


My guess is they were offering themselves up and the enemy didn't like the looks of em ;D ;D

[Sacha]

The combat AI in general needs a lot of improvement.  This is not news to the devs  :P

Trouble is, it's not as simple as it sounds.  There's a lot of different factors that go into why units behave as they do in combat.

Would it be at all possible to give archer commanders an option to fire into melee, with a chance of hitting friendly forces as well?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Such a mechanism already exists, although not something under user control. I don't think it's for archers, but maybe special forces?

Also, I'm sure those who looked at the battle reports since 3rd Inv have noticed that ranged daimons fire even while in melee.

[De-Legro]

Most archer in the middle ages wasn't "sniper" style. It was mass volleys of arrows in a arcing fire pattern. Firing into melee doesn't present a "chance" of hitting your own troops, it pretty much assures it.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

That makes some sense, although I can imagine some cruel strategist out there thinking "You get no weapons. Pick them off your dead comrades." He could also think "Keep the enemy in one place while we kill all of you. Then victory is ours."

In this case we're talking about some hardcore cold-blooded stuff...which is appropriate for BM. Unfortunately, I don't think such a feature would be easy to code, keeping in mind already how the current battle system works, and the added difficulty of making it a controllable decision (I'm pretty sure not everyone wants to lose infantry from friendly fire all the time).

[egamma]

heh, I just tried to write logic for archers, and gave up once I realized that aggressive/normal/defensive would play a role, distance from enemy, presence of friendly troops, and whether the enemy is dug in.

I know that the code is held by about 3 or 4 people, but perhaps archer move/fire logic could be posted here? I don't have a clue what it even looks like.

[Indirik]

heh, I just tried to write logic for archers, and gave up once I realized that aggressive/normal/defensive would play a role, distance from enemy, presence of friendly troops, and whether the enemy is dug in.

One possibility I discussed with Tim one day was that if archers are on Defensive, they would never advance if they had a valid target to shoot at.

[De-Legro]

That makes some sense, although I can imagine some cruel strategist out there thinking "You get no weapons. Pick them off your dead comrades." He could also think "Keep the enemy in one place while we kill all of you. Then victory is ours."

In this case we're talking about some hardcore cold-blooded stuff...which is appropriate for BM. Unfortunately, I don't think such a feature would be easy to code, keeping in mind already how the current battle system works, and the added difficulty of making it a controllable decision (I'm pretty sure not everyone wants to lose infantry from friendly fire all the time).

Would depend entirely on what age we are talking. Remember that at one stage archers were viewed as inferior since they were generally relatively untrained peasants. Some countries went so far as to view them as dishonourable to even use, similar to the controversies that formed around crossbows and muskets later on. It would be a very cold and calculating General that would consider having such rabble fire upon the melee, which would be dominated by the mounted knights, and most probably one that might struggle to hold the oaths of the knights for very long.

[Shizzle]

On top of that, the friendly units would take a lot more damage than the opposing force, unless your melee friends are carrying their shields on their backs, of course  ::)

And I think it is imperative for archer units on 'defensive' stance not to move forward, and certainly not when enemy units are in range. If the wind is causing problems, those archers should simply wait longer for the enemy to move closer? What's the use of 'defensive' archers if they can decide to move forward, perhaps even in front of 'defensive' infantry? Orders should be able to make sure a formation stays put and holds it's ground, unless a panicked flight occurs... Or is this already the case?