Zuma/Daimons

[De-Legro]

* Artemesia has to become the guinea pig to figure that out? Man this brings back memories of being a research subject...And no, I was not rebuilt to be stronger, faster, etc.

Well, interesting you say that because Garret did ask recently. I'm not sure exactly how and why he'd go out and tell people though. It's not as if he can out of the blue just go "Hey guys, look what I learned about the daimons!"

He could, but then it'd probably sound contrived. Instead I'll probably drop some hints to some people who have working relationships with Garret and see whether they feel like sharing. The more the merrier, I guess.

Post it on the wiki. Its in game knowledge then. I like to make such things in the format of a book, and just pretend its reprinted throughout the island. You could even do so under a pen name.

[De-Legro]

I like where De-legro is going with this. I might add, perhaps the anger and frustration with the Zuma comes from alot of us hate being mobbed by a faceless horde, if the Zuma are fleshed out a bit and there is more to work with it can be understandable why a Zuma would be a certain way. I think perhaps its why I feel so strongly about the subject as of late, there really isn't anything out there and very few of us have actually dealt with the Zuma on a daily basis.

Describe, the Zuman people, what do they look like?

What do their abodes look like?

What do they wear etc etc , are their animals on Zuman lands

Do they have festivals or celebrations or is it like hell all day and they are just in fire and brimstone morning till night.

The Gm's have to dig deeper, bring us some meat and make us fall in love with the Zuman world, make it interesting. It doesn't take much for me to enjoy and be apart of a better imagined world.

Found the link Artemesia was talking about http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Igelfeld_Family/Von_Igelfeld_family_Memoirs/The_Dwilight_Daimons

The problem I have with such statements is
1) The GM have their own time restraints, this isn't their job
2) A lot of that info has been put out there, not the GM's fault that people don't share, nor should they be compelled to repeat this stuff over and over and over again.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Actually is Garret and a collection of Zuma nobles. The fact that one GM plays the Zuma nobles is OOC information now isn't it.

And IC speaking, Gustav knows nothing about a collection of Zuma nobles. He just knows about Garret sending ultimatums and vague rumors about a leader.

[Vaylon Kenadell]

My character recently visited the Zuma lands and discovered indeed that Garret knows surprisingly little about the Zuma. Fortunately, my character observed quite a bit on his own. It isn't much, but I believe it's more than most people know.

I think a good analogy to explain my character's viewpoint would be to say that human religions (such as Sanguis Astroism) are like the Nine Divines from the Elder Scrolls series -- and the daimons are like the Daedra.

[vonGenf]

I think a good analogy to explain my character's viewpoint would be to say that human religions (such as Sanguis Astroism) are like the Nine Divines from the Elder Scrolls series -- and the daimons are like the Daedra.

Would you mind making this a bit less obscure for those of us whose main gaming outlet is BM itself?

[De-Legro]

And IC speaking, Gustav knows nothing about a collection of Zuma nobles. He just knows about Garret sending ultimatums and vague rumors about a leader.

Amazing enough, IC Juan knows nothing of Gustav. He barely knows about Allison, what is your point. If Gustav doesn't wish to educate himself further about a realm that is just south of him, that is ENTIRELY his choice. Unless what you are trying to say is that part of Gustav's character is that he is incapable of learning or showing curiosity. In which case, well who really cares he is obviously a hopeless case even if we sent him off to learn about Zuma school.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Actually about the Zuma...

On at least three separate group RP events I got characters to come to Nightmarch to check out the Zuma culture.

This was back in autumn of 2009. Basically during those times, the GM took a backseat and let me take the floor in presenting the Zuma natives, their buildings, architecture, what they look like (Yeah, I actually did tell a bunch of people. Glaumring: Your ambassador was among those people even. He got a souvenir from his trip too, an obsidian statue.)

I further explained their general "caste" system, what their clothing more or less denoted in relation to that, their recreational activities. I also mentioned that they eat what normal people eat.

I don't remember every name, but I do know that Graeth, who was a priest of Verdis Elementum back then (Was it Graeth? It was some priest from Asylon whose name started with a G and got an obsidian statue), Dasha (A freeman who did a lot of service to the Zuma as someone who hunted monsters and undead for them), Coturnix (Business contact who also got to find out stuff about Zuma history and culture), and I guess a few more.

Ah, but here's the thing: The Zuma are people, like all the other humans on Dwilight. One of the points I was trying to hint at in doing my independent RP parties where the daimons were only referred to in passing and never in the course of those roleplays intervened, was that the Zuma were, in fact, human like you and me. And what your characters should have somewhat figured out from that was that such a fact was probably pretty significant.

But instead, the general trend as I see now is that people more or less completely ignored the actual NPCs (NPC: Defined as non-player character, by definition, not played by any player...) and wanted to know about the daimons. In those cases, Garret knows the bad things that could happen if a mistake is made, so he basically decided, "You know what? They want to know about daimons so much they can do it on their own. I like being alive and healthy."

I don't know what the GM has done in the past regarding the actual Zuma, but I do know that I've put in the effort to explain as many aspects as I could think of to make those native humans seem more than some name. Whether anyone cared isn't my problem. But you might pause to wonder whether you might have been going about the Zuma Coalition entirely in the wrong order. Because, you know...Most of the time even you never actually meet a real daimon. The only daimon Garret has ever spoken to in person was Vates, and he was a special case. Even Haktoo he has only regarded from a distance.

So now that I've calmed down a little, I'll say what I probably should have said from the start.

There is a reason why there are daimons and a reason why there are humans living in such close proximity. You play humans, and while it's natural to be curious about the unknown, humans are also notoriously fearful of what they cannot understand, and instinctively seek something to ground themselves. I think that a very convenient "anchor" to give yourself some orientation in this alien "Netherworld" is to look at what you can understand. And usually, when humans see other humans that are managing relatively well in extraordinary circumstances, then regardless of what the humans look like or act, they are often seen as comrades and inspire hope. After all, if those humans have managed, why can't we?

And I will make a HUGE DISCLAIMER right now in case I inadvertently said too much: I am not involved in the GM's plans for the Zuma. What I just said was mainly conjecture (But I might add carefully thought out conjecture based on 1.5 years of careful observation and paying attention to what was going on in the Zuma Coalition). It does not necessarily reflect the views or intentions of the Zuma GM.

But should that really matter? Read what I suggested, and you decide for yourself whether what I say is true: That in a strange, terrifying world, humans first seek out what they are familiar with. If they see other humans, while they may be at first cautious, those native humans are nevertheless human. Sometimes our instinctive bonds that ties our species together overrules the complex thoughts born of our rational minds.

Might I add, by the way, that the above is certainly not obvious. If it were, then more people would be doing it. As it is...very few are.

[Indirik]

Describe, the Zuman people, what do they look like?

What do their abodes look like?

What do they wear etc etc , are their animals on Zuman lands

Do they have festivals or celebrations or is it like hell all day and they are just in fire and brimstone morning till night.

So... when are you going to do this for Asylon?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

How many human realms bother with that anyway?

[De-Legro]

How many human realms bother with that anyway?

Ahh but like Glaumring said, he is too busy doing Ruler stuff. Obviously GM's have loads and loads of free time to dedicate to such stuff. By the way Artemesia did you save any of your descriptions of the Zuma?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Sadly...probably not. It was something I figured the other players would save and/or tell others themselves. That's really how it was more or less supposed to work, to get the reports out there from people who took the tour.

[De-Legro]

Sadly...probably not. It was something I figured the other players would save and/or tell others themselves. That's really how it was more or less supposed to work, to get the reports out there from people who took the tour.

Pity well even if you remember the gist of it that would be helpful. Next task, get a character over to Garret for a little chit chat.  Pity I'm not a ambassador right now.

[Vellos]

Good gods man, you really have some obsession with the Zuma.

Did you know that internally the Zuma have not given you a second thought until that letter from Terrence?

That means a few things to me.

1. You pissed off someone in a HUMAN realm enough that they want to have you destroyed.

2. You pissed of someone in a HUMAN realm who is apparently cunning enough to use forged letters and a commoner to pass it to the Zuma.

3. This pissed off individual in a HUMAN realm apparently knows enough about the Zuma that he/she was confident enough that Terran would be in trouble.

4. You really know nothing at all about how your realm factors into what the Zuma do.

Let me give it to you straight from the guy who does get enough messages to know more or less what the Zuma give their attention to.

They do not actively care about your realm. If you did not continually insist on going into their regions and annoying the hell out of them, then they might very well even forget you existed. In fact, your regular food shipments stopped a while ago, and I didn't make a fuss about it, and the daimons didn't mention it either.

After all, you generally don't go out of your way to swat a bug unless it's constantly buzzing in your face.

So what makes me confused, is why you seem like you really really want to be that annoying fly that gets swatted. And now that the scary powerful being has taken out the fly swatter, you start crying about how he's holding the fly swatter and how that's not right or something to that effect.

Well dude, I'm going to tell you right now, and even though I can't speak for the Zuma GM, history suggests what I'm about to tell you. If you stop talking to the daimons, stay put in your current regions, and play nice with the HUMAN realms, then really, even the scary western neighbors won't do anything to you.

Is it that hard to understand? But no, you'll say "Then what's their purpose?"

Well, that's the Catch-22 really. You can either take the risk and maybe be disappointed. Or you can avoid that risk and get nothing. You can't have it both ways you know. Right now you're disappointed. You don't like it. You think there's no way to recover the situation.

Solutions I present to you (I predict you will refuse them for whatever reason you make up):

1. Leave the realm. If that's not good enough for you... Leave the continent. You've played long enough to know how to deal with disappointment and inconveniences to your enjoyment.

2. Stop bothering the daimons. I am not !@#$ting you here. I am seriously telling you that if you actually make it clear that you have no interest in Zuma affairs, have no ill will towards them, and back this up with your actions in which you absolutely ignore the daimons, then really, they most likely won't care about you either. Maybe they might move through your regions if someone else pisses them off, but that's not very common, and you won't suffer long for it.

3. Modify your plans. Like, duh. It doesn't require a GM faction to put a wrench in everything you do or have ever done. Someone like Allison Kabrinski could just as easily !@#$ your entire !@#$ over if she wanted to, and unlike the daimons, she has more sinister weapons called religion, deception, and propaganda. No, I won't explain this.

Thank you for proving my point.

I am totally aware that Terran was basically irrelevant to the Zuma before Terrence's letter. I'm fine with that; I like that. I'd be fine with the Zuma deciding that they loathe the idea of a group of humans united in a defensive alliance; or they loathe the idea of nobility, and therefore deciding to destroy the Moot.

What I'm not find with is that the Zuma can switch from "No concern at all" to "Open war" based on one forged letter that was so easily and quickly disproven; that they will march 10,000 CS of troops across a continent based on one or two idle comments. As Geronus has said, they are a nuclear option: they cause the fallout from human conflicts to become too great, and so human conflicts must be stifled.

Regarding not bothering the daimons... I think you are wrong. The daimons attacked us because we were not bothering them. No, that's a lie actually: but that forged message? Yeah. It was a message encouraging everyone to NOT BOTHER THE ZUMA. It was a message telling people to do exactly what you're suggesting. And a commoner got hold of it and sent an obviously forged copy saying the opposite to the Zuma.

We could ignore the Zuma. But they won't ignore us the moment some disgruntled commoner decides to forge a message. So now, commoners are nobles: you better believe Terran's policy on adventurers is going to change. They're no different than us anymore, because they have the potential to wipe a realm out with one message.

Terran has been laying low for a while now; nearly a month since last contact with Haktoo. Hireshmont's IC contact with Garret has been minimal.

And I get that you're trying to implicate Allison both ICly and OOCly. Sweet: I don't care.

Regarding why nobody has tried to implicate SA... first, because most players who are not terrible RPers don't get a thrill out of watching many peoples' hard work be torn apart by GM actions. It's not a pretty sight. Second, because they're less vulnerable. SA could survive the full brunt of a Zuma invasion, and could survive to retaliate against whoever betrayed them. Third, because they're far away. Terran, Asylon, and Barca are uniquely vulnerable to Zuma issues. Betraying us to the Zuma is more potent than betraying Astrum to the Zuma.

[Vellos]

They're not making me play nice. My character is treating the Zuma like any other realm. I have no intention of letting the fact that they are a GM controlled faction influence the way that I react to them. So far this interaction has been limited, I'll admit. That would have changed, but apparently FangFang isn't going to end up in a region with me, so I won't be able to talk to him. :(

Anyway, I plan on, as much as possible, dealing with them like any other realm. Maybe that will get Astrum crushed under waves of unstoppable daimon hordes. Maybe it will get them to leave me alone. Who knows? But I'm not going to let that make me "play nice" with the other human realms so I can be ready to defend humanity just in case the Zuma attack someone. Because, honestly, there are a couple realms that Brance would be happy to see go up in smoke.

That's good to know that your realm located several days (weeks?) travel from the Zuma has not been radically changed by their actions. This is why I don't really trust that poll at all: because the people who have the least knowledge and the least interaction represent a majority of the voters, when those who actually have to deal with the Zuma have a much more negative opinion, ranging from completely and totally pissed off (Glaumring) to somewhat frustrated but willing to work with it (dustole). The only truly positive report about the Zuma I've heard from anyone nearby is from egamma; and, again, as a D'Haran, he can pick and choose when we interacts with the Zuma. The others of us can't choose.

And it's notable that your distance allows you to say "There are a couple realms Brance would be happy to see go up in smoke." Terran can't really say that. I'm not claiming that conflicts in Summerdale have been ended by the Zuma. I'm saying that everything near the Zuma has been put on hold. Kabrinskia probably still has some independent conflicts. D'Hara might have some. Terran, Asylon, and Barca thus far do not.

[Vellos]

The same GM is playing them as always.

I've heard mixed things on this: is this actually true? I have heard people who might know say that Vates and Haktoo were the same GM, and I've heard they were different. I honestly don't know; but even haktoo was fine for quite a while.