Clan in Fontan and Aurvandil

[Anaris]

Have magistrates made the decision?

No. The thread was begun with the premise that there is a clan.

This knowledge comes from multiple investigations over several months in multiple realms by the dev team. It is not in dispute, nor is it up for discussion.

[DamnTaffer]

As I stated before, the existence or non-existence of a clan is not a topic of contention. Your posts have been deleted.

Did you actually read the post? Because judging from your reply you most certainly did not, he did not deny there was a clan, just denied that it was in control of Averoth, which does not deny the existance of a clan.

[^ban^]

Did you actually read the post? Because judging from your reply you most certainly did not, he did not deny there was a clan, just denied that it was in control of Averoth, which does not deny the existance of a clan.

Which, also, is not a point of contention. If it makes you feel better, it was also deleted for being off topic.

[DamnTaffer]

Assuming all your points of contention which are that

-There is a clan
-Where the clan is

And Toms accusations are

-When the clan goes against an opponent they often leave the game

Toms reasoning for why

-The game is supposed to be played casually as a group of freinds would play chess
-The clan are communicating OOG with each other for the purposes of orders and gold requests and not communicating with the other players
-The clan are willing to include players within there hierarchy but not in higher powered positions


Assuming i've summed up those points correctly

-The players against the saxon clan dislike the game played seriously with high levels of micromanagement
-There has been no evidence of cheating provided for either Fontan or Aurvandil so it can be assumed there is non
-The clan is communicating out of game with each other for gold requests and orders, however, to communicate with the rest of the realm, they will be forced to use IG communications so orders will have to be given out AND the rest of the realms gold requests will have to be IG as well.

So if there is no cheating, then that implys that because the players are playing actively and with the intention to succeed this is offending other players in the game?

I'll agree that the clan should not be using OOG communcations to exclude non clannies in discussion, though I see no issue in using it for gold requests

The final issue is there en-masse movements into realms and taking realm council positions - and this is really the only issue that I can see actually being the issue but feel free to correct me if i'm wrong

[Tom]

No, you completely misrepresent my point by going into specifics where it is not the specifics that matter.

If I rough you up every day after class, then every single incident is "just boys acting like boys" - but the sum total of my actions certainly adds up to bullying at the least. Making a list of "he shoved me into the corner" and "he pushed me from my bike" doesn't properly describe what's going on.

[Chenier]

The complaints are not unanimous. People from both Aurvandil and Fontan not belonging to the clan have vouched for them, saying they were fun and not exclusive.

BM, however "light weight" it is, depends on hyper active players to make things fun. The rank-and-file sheeple who log in once a turn at best don't make the game fun for others.

These guys are not using their advantages to create stagnation, they are using it to create conflict. If all they wanted was boring control, then they could easily spread out and monopolize a bloc of realms.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Thulsoma was *cheating* for all these months. It didn't take SA long to crush it once that was resolved.

This is not a trial for what happened in Averoth, Thulsoma, or any other dead realm. This is a trial about what's going on right now. Being guilty then does not necessarily make them guilty now.

Read again, Chenier. It is about what happened in those realms, as well as now.

I agree with Velax. We are looking for clan behavior, and past actions are evidence of consistency in both the people involved and their approach to the game. I would have added the Archachon events had I remembered them. Many of you here are more familiar with in-game events than I am, as I do mostly development.

[Kellaine]

I think the magistrates have got all their going to get out of this thread.

Are they done deliberating?

[Geronus]

No. We are still deliberating and voting, but the poll will close soon.

[Draco Tanos]

The complaints are not unanimous. People from both Aurvandil and Fontan not belonging to the clan have vouched for them, saying they were fun and not exclusive.

BM, however "light weight" it is, depends on hyper active players to make things fun. The rank-and-file sheeple who log in once a turn at best don't make the game fun for others.

These guys are not using their advantages to create stagnation, they are using it to create conflict. If all they wanted was boring control, then they could easily spread out and monopolize a bloc of realms.

Your definition of fun must be massively different from mine.  Seeing a realm of four to five regions managing to out CS even Sirion while moving their forces in unison is not fun, especially when the ONLY option to oppose them solo is mass OOC recruiting and communication just like them, is not fun.  As much as people like to claim there is some sort of clan in Westmoor, no one there plays like that.  As a roleplayer and as a BM member, the entire situation makes me sick.

[Kellaine]

Your definition of fun must be massively different from mine.  Seeing a realm of four to five regions managing to out CS even Sirion while moving their forces in unison is not fun, especially when the ONLY option to oppose them solo is mass OOC recruiting and communication just like them, is not fun.  As much as people like to claim there is some sort of clan in Westmoor, no one there plays like that.  As a roleplayer and as a BM member, the entire situation makes me sick.

Keep in mind that the "clan" in Fontan is only about 16 characters the rest of us play as we always have.  We have always had good movement and high activity. One of the benefits of a democracy, it keeps people active for the most part. the issue is how they are doing it I believe at this piont.  We of course still get stragglers. And as far as being able to field such high CS so quickly, we had a lot of nobles that did not field a unit for a long time and then suddenly Westmoor invaded and they all got units about the same time (not talking about the clanners), I myself had been hording gold for months and had a lot to hand out to those I knew needed it, And my two characters went from being courtiers to being warriors and fielding large units, others that were Infils went to fielding large units as well. Still others that had not been fielding large unit did so about the same time.  Fontan obviously cant keep it up for long unless we take some regions back and a few of Westmoors regions as well that is why we are TOing so much.  Westmoors movement has always been low to medium in comparison. But they are getting much better of late I have noticed. over all it is a relatively fair fight at the moment.

But the "clans" hyper activity did boost us above what we would normally have been able to do on our own, I will not debate that.  But
Fontan has always been a force to be reckoned with unless we are attacked by multiple realms at the same time.  For the most part our strategies have been sound and our movement as stated above has always been good.  Westmoor lit a fire under the majority of our members and they are much more active than normal right now.... How long that will last waits to be seen.

[Vellos]

A verdict has been reached, and IG enforcement actions will soon be made. For anyone who desires to cite this case in the future, the final verdict was:

"A dev investigation has revealed evidence of a clan in the form of uncanny gold distribution patterns, a history of one group of players acting in unbroken unity across numerous realms and continents, that same group practicing IG clan-actions such as clan-only armies, collective migration/character creation, and possibly clan-restrictions on title access. Given that these practices constitute a violation of the Social Contract, namely, a commitment to valuing fair play more than victory or power, and to playing Battlemaster as you would a board game with friends, the Magistrates find that there is a clan active related to Aurvandil and Fontan which is substantively diminishing the game experience of Battlemaster for other players. As the specific complaint was raised in regards to players with characters in Aurvandil also having characters in Fontan, only those characters and players shall be directly punished. However, the Magistrates have also found this clan to be active, in varying degrees and in varying ways, historically, in Arcachon, Averoth, and Thulsoma. While all players are welcome to play Battlemaster with friends, we also expect all players to invest in a constructive gaming community: and that means not always playing with the same clan of friends. The Magistrates have thus elected to deport the characters of clan members from some realms in which they are active, especially Fontan. The dev team will handle the deportation, and the specific list of characters to be deported.

The goal of this unusual action is to compel the members of this clan to try playing the game separately, as individuals, rather than as a collective that plays the game primarily as a group. As it is their collectivist approach to conflict and power that creates the violations that we have determined exist, we believe that this is the best option to correct the situation and it is our hope that these players can learn to enjoy the game as it was meant to be."

Magistrates voted 5-1 in favor of a guilty verdict, and 4-2 in favor of deportation as a punishment.

This thread is locked. If you wish to continue debating the issue, it can be done elsewhere. If you have questions for the Magistrates, please take it to the Q&A forum.