Reworking Trade

[Indirik]

1) Trade range is now a factor of your character and their position. Not a factor of distance from your region

And if you're a trader, your trade skill. Higher trade skill = higher range. Also, traders can hook up regions that are vastly farther apart. If their range is 500 miles, they can hook up a region that is 500 miles to the west of their location with a region that is 500 miles to the east, for a total trade distance of 1,000 miles. (No, that's not the max possible distance. The better traders can go farther than that.)

3) I've got no idea about this one. Do you mean they expire if no one fills them within a certain time?

You have to specify a lifetime for the trade deals. They expire in a max of 14 days, and the gold/food is returned.

It is quite possible that a lord may have reduced flexibility with this system. But if you're smart, and have a couple traders working with you on establishing a trading network, you can cover huge swathes of the islands. But you will probably have to share some of the action with your partners in crime.

[De-Legro]

To be fair part of Chénier's problem is probably the sea routes, which Tom has said he is willing to look at.

[Chenier]

I see...

I'm used to handling all of my city's food imports and exports. Now I have to relay that to a trader, since I can't become one myself?

Interesting new potential, but not really liking some of its implications.

So if I understand correctly, I can go to any region with a warehouse, and my "range" is my current location, not my home region? So if I go all the way north, I can buy food for Paisly directly? Will the food go directly to Paisly, or will I need caravans?

Also, are markets free of charge? It would make sense to be able to tax people to use your markets, since you *are* providing them with quite a handy service...

[De-Legro]

I see...

I'm used to handling all of my city's food imports and exports. Now I have to relay that to a trader, since I can't become one myself?

Interesting new potential, but not really liking some of its implications.

So if I understand correctly, I can go to any region with a warehouse, and my "range" is my current location, not my home region? So if I go all the way north, I can buy food for Paisly directly? Will the food go directly to Paisly, or will I need caravans?

Also, are markets free of charge? It would make sense to be able to tax people to use your markets, since you *are* providing them with quite a handy service...

Caravans are dead. The new system abstracts them away. Yes you can send food back to your City from anywhere. If you are in Poryatown for example, you could claim any buy orders within the local area and they would travel back to your City. Your steward can do likewise (Not 100% stewards are implemented in the new system though)

Why can't you become a trader? Don't want to give up your current class? Lord Traders are very very powerful in the trade game by combining the advantages of both.

There is no tarrif for using a market place.

[Indirik]

I'm used to handling all of my city's food imports and exports. Now I have to relay that to a trader, since I can't become one myself?

You're a priest, huh? It might be interesting to investigate re-enabling priest/trader.

So if I understand correctly, I can go to any region with a warehouse, and my "range" is my current location, not my home region? So if I go all the way north, I can buy food for Paisly directly? Will the food go directly to Paisly, or will I need caravans?

In order:

• Yes, your range is based on your current location, not on your region. After all, traders don't have a region.
• Correct. In testing, I took the lord of Eidulb Outskirts all the way down to Fissoa, and using the market I built there (since the silly Fissoans didn't have one...) I executed trades with several Fissoan regions. And I was able to both broker deals in the area, as well as create trade deals on the stores in Eidulb Outskirts and close the deals with the Fissoan regions.
• All food you buy is instantly transported to the destination. If you are a lord, that is probably your own region. If you are a trader brokering a deal, then it is whoever you selected to Buy the food. There are no more caravans. You can forget they ever existed, because they no longer exist. (All bonds are also instantly transferred to the required people involved as well.)

Also, are markets free of charge? It would make sense to be able to tax people to use your markets, since you *are* providing them with quite a handy service...

At this time, markets are fee of charge. I agree that it would be interesting if they were taxed in some relation to the local tax rate. Perhaps with a minimum 1 gold/trade fee.

[Chenier]

Priests can't be traders. Besides, as a duke and ambassador I never want to be that far away from home either.

I've always handled the food of my city myself. Partly being because 1) hardly anyone's interested in dealing with food and 2) historically, most others who tried always ended up starving their cities to revolt. Food management was too important to delegate.

I understand there's no tariff right now, but I seriously think there ought to be one. I would hate to see the whole continent come to D'Hara to bum off our markets, and that we gain nothing in return. That is, if our markets ever reach anywhere, which they currently don't. I can't even reach Madina city anymore, when I used to be able to reach their whole realm and most of Caerwyn. Am I going to have to spend all of my time travelling to be able to reach the same markets I used to be able to reach from anywhere in my realm?

[Chenier]

2 more issues which might be due to my misunderstanding:

Without caravans, does that mean that only lords and stewards can trade, now?

And does that mean that we can only travel to import? Is it still possible to go far away to sell?

[De-Legro]

Priests can't be traders. Besides, as a duke and ambassador I never want to be that far away from home either.

I've always handled the food of my city myself. Partly being because 1) hardly anyone's interested in dealing with food and 2) historically, most others who tried always ended up starving their cities to revolt. Food management was too important to delegate.

I understand there's no tariff right now, but I seriously think there ought to be one. I would hate to see the whole continent come to D'Hara to bum off our markets, and that we gain nothing in return. That is, if our markets ever reach anywhere, which they currently don't. I can't even reach Madina city anymore, when I used to be able to reach their whole realm and most of Caerwyn. Am I going to have to spend all of my time travelling to be able to reach the same markets I used to be able to reach from anywhere in my realm?

The idea is to simply trade though, tarrifs might complicate it again. Once the diplo system is up and running, at least they would need an open borders treaty to enter your lands. But then again, like you pointed out, your markets just ain't that great due to the sea routes chewing them up.

D'Hara is, as always, a special case. The Sea routes drastically cut down the regions that are within the trading range. Highly skilled traders should be able to reach many of the regions you once did, Lords no so much. The proposed change to sea routes would help some, but it would only open up the other port cities.

[De-Legro]

2 more issues which might be due to my misunderstanding:

Without caravans, does that mean that only lords and stewards can trade, now?

And does that mean that we can only travel to import? Is it still possible to go far away to sell?

Traders work differently now. They MATCH buy and sell orders within their range. Like was said earlier this means their effective range is twice their "max" trading range. So say there is a 300 bushel buy order in Pasily, and there is a trader up in Golden Farrow. He can potentially match that buy order to sell orders. The trader can match multiple orders, so he can for instance match 2 buy orders with 3 sell orders, so long as the total food bought and sold in the transaction is the same, and he doesn't lose money on the deal. The sell orders could be from far up north, and he can sell south of his location, so long as the destination is within his trading range, and the source is within his trading range, the distance between destination and source can be greater then the traders range.

I believe it is possible, as a Lord, to sell your regions food within the range of your current location.

[Chenier]

It's not even just the long sea routes to foreign realms: D'Hara is 1000 miles across. Many others are also of similar dimensions, I believe, even if less linear.

Traders work differently now. They MATCH buy and sell orders within their range. Like was said earlier this means their effective range is twice their "max" trading range. So say there is a 300 bushel buy order in Pasily, and there is a trader up in Golden Farrow. He can potentially match that buy order to sell orders. The trader can match multiple orders, so he can for instance match 2 buy orders with 3 sell orders, so long as the total food bought and sold in the transaction is the same, and he doesn't lose money on the deal. The sell orders could be from far up north, and he can sell south of his location, so long as the destination is within his trading range, and the source is within his trading range, the distance between destination and source can be greater then the traders range.

I believe it is possible, as a Lord, to sell your regions food within the range of your current location.

So one always need to be in range of D'Hara in order to sell to D'Hara? Our traders couldn't go trade with Springdale, for example, with this new system? Unless a million lords are willing to resell the food at the same price for you?

[De-Legro]

It's not even just the long sea routes to foreign realms: D'Hara is 1000 miles across. Many others are also of similar dimensions, I believe, even if less linear.

So one always need to be in range of D'Hara in order to sell to D'Hara? Our traders couldn't go trade with Springdale, for example, with this new system? Unless a million lords are willing to resell the food at the same price for you?

Only traders need to stay within range of D'Hara. Lords don't have that limitation. Dwilight in general may be a bit harder with the new trading system due to the larger distances involved. I think the old system made some adjustments for this, perhaps the new one could as well.

[Andrew]

I remember in the old system as Lord of Dunnbrook, I could send carvans as far south as Chesney. If that's an "adjustment", that's prolly a bit much in my opinion.

[fodder]

• Correct. In testing, I took the lord of Eidulb Outskirts all the way down to Fissoa, and using the market I built there (since the silly Fissoans didn't have one...) I executed trades with several Fissoan regions. And I was able to both broker deals in the area, as well as create trade deals on the stores in Eidulb Outskirts and close the deals with the Fissoan regions.

what do you mean you built a market there?

[De-Legro]

what do you mean you built a market there?

Test server. To be able to test things the Devs sometimes need to set up specific tests cases.

[fodder]

as in the testing islands everyone is using? or a duplicate somewhere (since i was looking at the market there in fissoa XD)