Reworking Trade

[Bedwyr]

as in the testing islands everyone is using? or a duplicate somewhere (since i was looking at the market there in fissoa XD)

Devs have access to a server that is not part of the game, which they use for testing various things.  Very handy, though it obviously doesn't catch everything.

[Peri]

Isn't there an asymmetry with respect to buy/sell for Lords or stewards?

As Chenier pointed out, a Lord of a region in dire need of food could go around (or send his steward around) to visit local -possibly very distant- marketplaces and find buy offers to replenish his own granaries. On the other hand a Lord of a region with a large surplus can't do something like that (if I understood the system right), and simply has to hope that some other region within the reach of a random trader passing by has an open buy offer that could match his.

Wouldn't it be possible just as a lord/steward can buy food for his region remotely to sell his region's stocks remotely? Perhaps that would be a bit against the idea tom has of the trader as not a traveling salesman, but would give food producers more chances to sell.

[De-Legro]

Isn't there an asymmetry with respect to buy/sell for Lords or stewards?

As Chenier pointed out, a Lord of a region in dire need of food could go around (or send his steward around) to visit local -possibly very distant- marketplaces and find buy offers to replenish his own granaries. On the other hand a Lord of a region with a large surplus can't do something like that (if I understood the system right), and simply has to hope that some other region within the reach of a random trader passing by has an open buy offer that could match his.

Wouldn't it be possible just as a lord/steward can buy food for his region remotely to sell his region's stocks remotely? Perhaps that would be a bit against the idea tom has of the trader as not a traveling salesman, but would give food producers more chances to sell.

Who said they can't sell their food remotely? If there is a buy order posted in the locality, then the Lord can fill it so far as I know.

[Tom]

What have we gained? I haven't had much chances to fiddle with the new system yet, but all I'm seeing are negatives...

You are comparing apples and oranges. You are looking for advantages compared to the way things used to be instead of acknowledging that the new system is entirely different.

[Peri]

Who said they can't sell their food remotely? If there is a buy order posted in the locality, then the Lord can fill it so far as I know.

oh ok I didn't get it.

[Tom]

Your steward can do likewise (Not 100% stewards are implemented in the new system though)

They are

You're a priest, huh? It might be interesting to investigate re-enabling priest/trader.

I might actually give that a thought. There were several reasons why the old system disallowed it, they may no longer be true in the new system.

[egamma]

Here's what I can do as a region lord:
Buy food from any region in range and sell to Raviel
Sell food from any region in range and sell to Raviel

So I can travel to Storms Keep and purchase food for Raviel, or sell food to Storms Keep from Raviel.

Here's what my trader can do, with his 562 mile range:

From Paisly, I can purchase food as far south as Candiels Fields, and as far north as Vasgew. So I could buy food from Candiels Fields and sell them to Saffalore, or anyplace in between. Or west to Twainwood, or east to Nebel. So I an buy food from Terran, Barca, and Aurvrandil, and supply all 3 major cities of D'Hara, assuming those region lords of buy orders in place.

Or, I could travel to Vasgew, and broker a deal between Lowervia and Paisly. Or do the same to cover most of Madina's regions from Candiels Fields.

Here's what we can do with multiple traders and a cooperative region lord:

Trader A can travel to Vasgew, buy food from Lowervia, and sell to Paisly.
Trader B can travel to Candiels fields, buy food from Paisly, and sell to Bol.

For reference, that's two (good) traders, each with a range of about 560 miles, selling food over a distance of about 2000 miles. Only 2 buy and 2 sell orders are needed.

And of course, since it's unlikely that Paisly will be selling food, you can think of all that as the effective 'buying range' of two traders in range of Paisly--over half of western Dwilight.

And, we can do the same thing from the Desert of Silhouettes, but I'm not sure of the specific regions in range.

Trading over the sea routes would be an excellent addition. With those, we'll be able to travel to Golden Farrow or Mimer and trade within 500 miles of those regions, and send the food back to D'Hara.

[Indirik]

And of course, since it's unlikely that Paisly will be selling food, you can think of all that as the effective 'buying range' of two traders in range of Paisly--over half of western Dwilight.

Now combine that trading range with the ability of a steward/lord, who can always trade with his home region regardless of where they are. You can be *very* effective.

[Chenier]

You are comparing apples and oranges. You are looking for advantages compared to the way things used to be instead of acknowledging that the new system is entirely different.

Comparing is kinda necessary given the importance of trade for the survival of my Dwi realm. The balance was never secured, and even while things were improving recently massive realm-killing starvation was never that far away. In this regard, I'm not comparing apples and oranges, I'm comparing a fruit with a fruit.

Still haven't had the time to fully grasp the new trading system and evaluate how it, on top of the population and food consumption changes, will affect us.

[Chenier]

Now combine that trading range with the ability of a steward/lord, who can always trade with his home region regardless of where they are. You can be *very* effective.

"cooperative lords" is the element in the equation I'm disliking. Given how realms with their adjacent unclaimed regions can cover quite large areas, that means that trade can severely be hampered by mere non-cooperation, whereas before it would have taken them active measures to block it.

The ability to have a steward trader go far far away is appealing... if only I had a trader as a knight (heck, a knight at all).

[Tom]

"cooperative lords" is the element in the equation I'm disliking. Given how realms with their adjacent unclaimed regions can cover quite large areas, that means that trade can severely be hampered by mere non-cooperation, whereas before it would have taken them active measures to block it.

Good! It is high time that economic elements enter more into diplomacy.

[Zakilevo]

Hope when we do rework some economic aspects of BM, we should have some imbalances. Like realms with mountainous regions producing high amount of metals while producing little food or something like that. Trade was necessary for men because people didn't have everything they needed.

[De-Legro]

Hope when we do rework some economic aspects of BM, we should have some imbalances. Like realms with mountainous regions producing high amount of metals while producing little food or something like that. Trade was necessary for men because people didn't have everything they needed.

Yes this the the information the "Major Industries" used to provide, not that anything was implemented beyond that. The whole point of the proposed economy change was to encourage war and trade by spreading out essential resources. However the change, at least in the form that was proposed has been scrapped.

[Tom]

Hope when we do rework some economic aspects of BM, we should have some imbalances. Like realms with mountainous regions producing high amount of metals while producing little food or something like that. Trade was necessary for men because people didn't have everything they needed.

Yes, something like that is still under consideration. However, under the old system that would have been an insane amount of crazy and bug-prone code.

Right now, there is nothing specific on the table, but my thoughts go in two directions:

a) something like in the Civ games, where if you control a resource, you can use it, and you need a certain number of resources for some things. So controlling that mountain region may give you x points of metal and some high-end recruitment centers need metal points to produce soldiers.

b) maybe with the new trade system, these resources could be tradeable goods. I'm really not sure about that, though.

[Zakilevo]

That would be pretty cool. But I can already see this will take at least another year or two for it to actually happen.