New Trade System Feedback

[Velax]

Starvation will set in even if there is a bit of production, because if it can't cover demand, then some people will starve.

How quickly and badly it gets depends on how much is produced vs. consumed.

Is that different to how it is on stable? I think a region on stable only starves if there's no food at all, right? If there's some food, but not enough to satisfy demand, then you get the "people are going hungry" message instead.

[fodder]

think it really depends on how much food. don't know if it's true or not, but used to be people do half ration.. less than half is assumed to the same as no food.

chances are.. it's probably even more complicated than that..

[egamma]

Is that different to how it is on stable? I think a region on stable only starves if there's no food at all, right? If there's some food, but not enough to satisfy demand, then you get the "people are going hungry" message instead.

It seems the new system is more realistic.

[Chenier]

automatic buy offers will never return - as the gold comes from the character, they simply can't work.

I am considering automatic sell offers - tell your region that whenever it has more than X food available, it should put Y of that on the market for a price of Z. That is fairly easy to add and makes sense. It also means that those who need the food need to make an effort, not those who have plenty, which also makes sense in my book.

Why does the gold need to come from the character, though? If the region starves, none of the knights get an income since production drops to zero. Why shouldn't everyone in the region be contributing to the purchase of food?

The biggest complaint when we switched to caravans was the lack of automation. It was eventually added in, though, albeit always  bit buggy, but thankfully it superposed itself wit the old system that still allowed automatic sell or buy offers. Automation makes trading a lot more fun for everyone.

I don't see effort as a good thing, regardless of how much sense it might make, because of how unappealing resource managing is to most players.

I, for one, didn't want to have to deal with constantly renewing my offers. So I set them to the max duration allowed. Now, they expired, and I feel even less like putting them back up than before. When I sent caravans, yea, I had to do it every week or so. But at least the markets changed, there were strategic decisions to make, and it required some thought. But going back to the market every week to reset the same darn offers that expired from two weeks ago? That's just repetitive, requires no thinking, and is generally just an unproductive time-drain. The only difference between automation and manual offers, in this case, is that one wastes people's time.

No need to hurry, as I'm miles away from a marketplace so can't do anything trade related........but then again, I'm stupid for not putting 100 orders up before I went together with the army. ;P

This is what everyone who bothers to set trade offers does. Putting a ton of offers that would otherwise have been better replaced by an automatic offer.

[fodder]

well... they are paying for it. you just have to up the lord's share to do that. or can appoint a steward so he spends his gold.

and if there are auto sell offers, then you don't need to set any offer. you just have to buy them when you see them.

[egamma]

Why does the gold need to come from the character, though? If the region starves, none of the knights get an income since production drops to zero. Why shouldn't everyone in the region be contributing to the purchase of food?

Because that's how trading is done now, with bonds. Regions do not have bonds. Your steward can use his bonds to buy food too.

I, for one, didn't want to have to deal with constantly renewing my offers. So I set them to the max duration allowed. Now, they expired, and I feel even less like putting them back up than before. When I sent caravans, yea, I had to do it every week or so. But at least the markets changed, there were strategic decisions to make, and it required some thought. But going back to the market every week to reset the same darn offers that expired from two weeks ago? That's just repetitive, requires no thinking, and is generally just an unproductive time-drain. The only difference between automation and manual offers, in this case, is that one wastes people's time.

So don't create buy offers. Instead, transact my sell offers. If Paisly is out of range of Raviel, then ask Sir Francis to buy some of the food I have up for sale, and buy it off him.

[pcw27]

Question I have (which falls in line with the above, with the noble's troops starving in a region with no food):

I used caravans not only for trade, but to carry excess food "just in case" I was stuck in a starving region, so my troops wouldn't be impacted...

If caravans have gone bye-bye, can something minor be created as paraphrenalia, so a noble can be proactive in protecting their own troops (maybe even to avoid impacting a region's food, because they already have their own)?  If not called a caravan, maybe just call it a "supply wagon"... they won't be able to sell to a region (which seems to be what you want) but they can buy and store food (or heck, even loot food).

Does bring up an interesting idea though... spend 3 hours on "Forage Food" if you want to see if you can get food for yourself, into your supply wagon, but doesn't damage the region's production, and isn't considered a hostile action against the region...?

"Extra rations" paraphernalia?

[Tom]

That's actually an interesting idea. Though it would have to be a kind of used-up paraphernalia, and it needs fleshing out to make it less game-able (because it depends on the size of the unit, etc.)

The issue I see is that I don't see a way to really code it without making it almost as complicated as carrying food.

[egamma]

That's actually an interesting idea. Though it would have to be a kind of used-up paraphernalia, and it needs fleshing out to make it less game-able (because it depends on the size of the unit, etc.)

The issue I see is that I don't see a way to really code it without making it almost as complicated as carrying food.

Just make it similar to the damage stat, for a start, with the number decreasing faster for larger units. Then we need some way to refill it, either through active looting, passive looting as discussed previously, buying rations in a city/stronghold/townsland, etc. I think you could start simple and then add to it later.

[JPierreD]

That's actually an interesting idea. Though it would have to be a kind of used-up paraphernalia, and it needs fleshing out to make it less game-able (because it depends on the size of the unit, etc.)

The issue I see is that I don't see a way to really code it without making it almost as complicated as carrying food.

How about nobles being able to buy (but not sell) and carry a small amount of food (up to 50 bushels?), exclusively for their troops to eat? Seems pretty simple to me, as if they were all carrying half a caravan or so. Should food lack in the region and the troops eat from the reserves.

[Thunthorn]

Just make it similar to the damage stat, for a start, with the number decreasing faster for larger units. Then we need some way to refill it, either through active looting, passive looting as discussed previously, buying rations in a city/stronghold/townsland, etc. I think you could start simple and then add to it later.

It wouldn't even have to decrease faster for larger units, just adjust the price and food needed to fill it up in proportion to the size of the unit. In fact quite like the equip,emt damage stat.

[fodder]

what... so you can buy tons of food with a tiny unit, then buy lots of men and have food auto scale up?

or buy a day's worth of food for 100 men, get 90 of them killed and have only a day's worth for 10 men remaining?

[egamma]

what... so you can buy tons of food with a tiny unit, then buy lots of men and have food auto scale up?

or buy a day's worth of food for 100 men, get 90 of them killed and have only a day's worth for 10 men remaining?

Consider a weeks' rations to be included in the recruitment cost of a unit. As for the getting killed, if you assume that your men carry their rations with them, then perhaps they were lost in the battle. Or if you were routed, your men ran away and neglected to bring most of the food with them.

[fodder]

eh... but these are extra rations in case they run into starving regions. ie.. the quartermaster holds them. they'll never get used unless they are starving.

don't really want to play supply line master...

why not just forget it. keeping gold on person is enough without having to carry food on person.

[JPierreD]

There is already an existing value of how much troops consume. Why not using it? You carry an X amount of bushels with you, and consume them the same way troops consume food from a region. That way there is no way you can game it.

You can either have the troops get the food through the usual means (looting and buying), or require a special building for specially prepared travel rations (food exclusively for troops). Or you can mix them both, and make bought/looted bushels less effective (they consume more of it or some of it is lost in the way, little by little, regardless of being consumed or not).