Author Topic: Cities and Duchies  (Read 32441 times)

GoldPanda

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 561
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #45: February 08, 2012, 08:49:48 PM »
We have those things. They are called Dukes. -_-

So under the new system, do Dukes even have any responsibilities if they are not also a region lord? Region lords, especially, err, city region lords, have a lot of responsibility and duties. It seems to me that all Dukes are good for is taxing his lords and being useless.

This new system raises many, many questions:

Who draws the duchy borders?

Can region lords still defect to an adjacent duchy?

Who gets to create new duchies?

Who gets to name the duchies?

Who cleans up empty/dead duchies?

How are dukes appointed/elected? How much freedom do different government systems have to change this? Can each duchy have its own system for selecting its duke?

Will there be an easy and intuitive way for realms to say "This is all very new and scary. I just want to default to exactly how the old system works until we figure out the implications and controls of the new Trade system, the new Estate system, the region population re-balance, etc., etc., then we'll come back and figure out what to do with the new Duchy system."
------
qui audet vincit

Telrunya

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1056
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #46: February 08, 2012, 09:10:22 PM »
Dukes rule their Duchy. They can appoint Lords in their Duchy, Raise Taxes, and secede (I think). They get powers and can be far from useless. How useful they will be will also be dependent on how useful they want to be though. Unless they are the Ruler's Pet Duke without any regions of course ;)

Duchy borders are drawn by the Region Lords in the end. They decide which Duchy to belong to, just like with the old system. Lords can switch to another Duchy by A) being adjacent to it or B) being in the Duchy they want to join.

Duchies are created by the Ruler, who also name them at that time, so the Ruler also has some control over the Duchy layout. The Ruler can also dissolve a Duchy with no more regions, or decide not to if he wants that. The Ruler appoints the Duke, though he can of course use a Referendum for this.

You can default to the old system very easily. The initial set-up will be the old system, so you don't have to do anything. And for the rest, a Ruler can easily make a Duchy in each City/Stronghold and have the Lord of the City be the Duke, just like the old system, whenever a new City is captured etc.. However you can easily go for a different set-up. In Old Grehk, the Duchy of Vozzesdor just lost the City of Vozzesdor after the Lord and Duke had a disagreement and the Lord of Vozzesdor decided to switch :)

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #47: February 08, 2012, 09:16:07 PM »
So under the new system, do Dukes even have any responsibilities if they are not also a region lord? Region lords, especially, err, city region lords, have a lot of responsibility and duties. It seems to me that all Dukes are good for is taxing his lords and being useless.
Dukes will have as much responsibility as you give them. That does not mean they will get any more game mechanics buttons to click. But they should still be responsible for the welfare of their duchy. If you don't want to hold them to that, then that's your choice. Which pretty much works just like it did in the old system. The only real difference between a "duke" and a "lord" was that the duke had the "Secede" button. Which he still has in the new system.

Quote
Who draws the duchy borders?
The lords, by choosing their duchy allegiance, Just like in the old system.

Quote
Can region lords still defect to an adjacent duchy?
Yes. Also, a lord can change allegiance to to the same duchy as the region he is physically in, even if that duchy is not physically bordering his region.

Quote
Who gets to create new duchies?
The ruler creates new duchies. A ruler can bestow the title of Duke on any lord of a city, townsland, or stronghold who is not already a duke. Their region is removed from their currently duchy, and becomes the first region in their new duchy.

Quote
Who gets to name the duchies?
The ruler names the duchy at the time of its creation.

Quote
Who cleans up empty/dead duchies?
The ruler can disband any duchy that no longer has regions. He is not required to do so, and can even appoint someone as the duke of a duchy that has no regions. But empty duchies and vacant duke positions will stick around until the ruler decides to disband them.

Quote
How are dukes appointed/elected? How much freedom do different government systems have to change this?
At the moment, all dukes are appointed by the ruler. There are no provisions for electing a duke. I don't believe that any such provisions are planned, but I could be wrong on that.

Quote
Can each duchy have its own system for selecting its duke?
No. And this is almost certain to never happen. Selection method for dukes would be determined at the realm level, if multiple methods are ever implemented.

Quote
Will there be an easy and intuitive way for realms to say "This is all very new and scary. I just want to default to exactly how the old system works until we figure out the implications and controls of the new Trade system, the new Estate system, the region population re-balance, etc., etc., then we'll come back and figure out what to do with the new Duchy system."
When the transition is made, everything in your realm should initially be set up the same. All your government options should carry over. i.e. you will still have the same lords and lord selection methods, the same dukes, the same duchies, knights will be sworn to the same regions with the same percentage oaths, etc.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

GoldPanda

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 561
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #48: February 08, 2012, 10:32:03 PM »
Thanks. Two more edge cases that I'd like to ask about:

Currently, in Tyrannies, I believe the ruler can appoint himself as Duke. Would this be still allowed in the new system? Can a noble be Dictator, Duke, and Lord of BananaRepublica City?

If you have a duchy with only rural regions... what happens when it secedes? Do you just get a realm without a capital? I'm fine with letting people screw themselves over, but new players joining a "headless" realm are probably not going to have a nice experience.
------
qui audet vincit

De-Legro

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #49: February 08, 2012, 10:40:22 PM »
Thanks. Two more edge cases that I'd like to ask about:

Currently, in Tyrannies, I believe the ruler can appoint himself as Duke. Would this be still allowed in the new system? Can a noble be Dictator, Duke, and Lord of BananaRepublica City?

If you have a duchy with only rural regions... what happens when it secedes? Do you just get a realm without a capital? I'm fine with letting people screw themselves over, but new players joining a "headless" realm are probably not going to have a nice experience.

Yes, Solaria's Benevolent Tyrant, may the stars guide and protect him, recently appointed himself Duke so he can better control/enrich our lives.

I'm not sure about the second one, and interesting case where a Duchy has lost the region it was created from. Even if they did have a capital though, the realm would be struggling with a rural capital. My thought is that is can't have a capital, but perhaps the code checks for such viability before allowing the secession, I would need to check.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

Tom

  • BM Dev Team
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8228
    • View Profile
    • BattleMaster
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #50: February 08, 2012, 10:51:01 PM »
So under the new system, do Dukes even have any responsibilities if they are not also a region lord? Region lords, especially, err, city region lords, have a lot of responsibility and duties. It seems to me that all Dukes are good for is taxing his lords and being useless.

They are, in other words, the living embodiments of nobility. ;)

No, seriously - it depends on what you make out of it. The dukes can be anything from pure figureheads to the real rulers of the realm, and that doesn't depend on game-mechanics, but on how it's played.

Tom

  • BM Dev Team
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8228
    • View Profile
    • BattleMaster
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #51: February 08, 2012, 10:55:02 PM »
If you have a duchy with only rural regions... what happens when it secedes? Do you just get a realm without a capital? I'm fine with letting people screw themselves over, but new players joining a "headless" realm are probably not going to have a nice experience.

We've taken care of that. Duchies without a least one city in them can not secede. And the duke must be in the city that will automatically become the new capital. In fact, this is how the capital is chosen - it is whatever city the duke is in when he secedes.

GoldPanda

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 561
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #52: February 09, 2012, 12:15:20 AM »
Currently, on stable, when a realm takes a city away from another realm, we end up with a duchy spread across two realms. The city says it belongs to the duchy of X for the conquering realm, and the rest of the regions in the duchy says they belong to the duchy of X for the original realm.

I just wanted to make sure that this is due to the fact that stable does not have all the necessary code changes. Under the new system, the conquering realm would get another city added to one of its existing duchies, and the original realm would lose a city from one of its duchies?
------
qui audet vincit

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #53: February 09, 2012, 12:42:54 AM »
Under the new system, the conquering realm would get another city added to one of its existing duchies, and the original realm would lose a city from one of its duchies?
Correct.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Sacha

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1410
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #54: February 13, 2012, 09:21:23 PM »
What happens to the regions of a duchy that has its last/only city taken? Do they become unaligned regions, or do they automatically switch to another available duchy within the realm?

Eithad

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #55: February 13, 2012, 09:25:46 PM »
What happens to the regions of a duchy that has its last/only city taken? Do they become unaligned regions, or do they automatically switch to another available duchy within the realm?

I think they just stay in their current duchy.

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #56: February 13, 2012, 09:34:37 PM »
Loss of a city, or any individual region at all, has no effect whatsoever on a duchy. Duchies are no longer tied exclusively to cities in any way. A city has no special significance to the duchy, beyond the fact that it has a bank.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Dante Silverfire

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1786
  • Merlin (AT), Brom(DWI), Proslyn(DWI)
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #57: February 13, 2012, 09:39:50 PM »
Loss of a city, or any individual region at all, has no effect whatsoever on a duchy. Duchies are no longer tied exclusively to cities in any way. A city has no special significance to the duchy, beyond the fact that it has a bank.

And allows the Duke the option of secession? (Need at least one city)
"This is the face of the man who has worked long and hard for the good of the people without caring much for any of them."

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #58: February 13, 2012, 09:43:18 PM »
Yes, a duchy needs at least one city to secede.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Sacha

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1410
    • View Profile
Re: Cities and Duchies
« Reply #59: February 13, 2012, 09:57:09 PM »
So hypothetically we could have a situation where Keplerstan and Evilstan are at war, and the duchy of Keplerville ends up with Evilcity as its sole city, and the duchy of Evilcity has Keplerville as only city?

Maximum lulz!