Feature Cut: Mentors

[Indirik]

It doesn't matter to me if mentoring is IC or OOC. But it should not be realm-based. Too many realms don't have good mentors. All new players should have access to as wide a range of mentors as possible.

One possible issue with an island-wide mentors guild is that it could become an avenue for communication by experienced players. Guilds are often used to facilitate communication, and many people routinely join as many guilds as possible for that reason. How could we control that, to prevent from being just another avenue of communication and propaganda?

If we do it forum-based, then we would be forcing players to join and use the forums.

[Gustav Kuriga]

The thing is that many new players may not even bother to check out the forum. I know I wouldn't, starting out. Yes, it's counter-intuitive, but I prefer to get into a game first, then go on the forums if it looks like I'll be playing it often.

[Indirik]

Not counter-intuitive at all. I never check the forums for a game until I know that I like it, and am willing to invest time in it. Forums are a lot of work, and can take a lot of time to keep up with. Why bother doing that for a game you aren't even sure you will like?

[Anaris]

My take:

Mentorship is, by its nature, an OOC thing. This should be acknowledged and respected by the game mechanics that support it.  Yes, it's cool to be able to roleplay a mentor-student relationship in-character, but that is and should be secondary to helping people learn to play the game.

Because of this, mentorship should never be bound to any in-character construct such as a realm.

Forcing new players to look to the forum for mentorship is tantamount to abandoning casually interested new players. They will not be willing to take that extra effort.

Thus: It must be in-game, but not in-character, and not realm-centric.

My primary impulse is to just create an island-wide "all mentors and students" channel, possibly limited to out-of-character messages, and prevent contacts from being created between two mentors by messages sent through the channel. Then mentors will easily be able to communicate with all students, and through personal replies, to their own students, but there will no longer be a specific tie between a particular mentor and student.

[Peri]

My take:

Mentorship is, by its nature, an OOC thing. This should be acknowledged and respected by the game mechanics that support it.  Yes, it's cool to be able to roleplay a mentor-student relationship in-character, but that is and should be secondary to helping people learn to play the game.

Because of this, mentorship should never be bound to any in-character construct such as a realm.

Forcing new players to look to the forum for mentorship is tantamount to abandoning casually interested new players. They will not be willing to take that extra effort.

Thus: It must be in-game, but not in-character, and not realm-centric.

My primary impulse is to just create an island-wide "all mentors and students" channel, possibly limited to out-of-character messages, and prevent contacts from being created between two mentors by messages sent through the channel. Then mentors will easily be able to communicate with all students, and through personal replies, to their own students, but there will no longer be a specific tie between a particular mentor and student.

What you propose makes sense. What naturally follows it is to discuss how is one supposed to become a mentor: if it's a self declaration or not, and how to prevent a single student being flooded by dozens of replies to his answer.

[vonGenf]

The question is if we should make it an IC thing or an OOC thing.

If OOC - we could simply set up a board in the forum.

There is already a newbie board on the forum. This does not preclude an extra in-game system. I always liked the idea of IC mentoring.

[Gustav Kuriga]

IC mentoring is nice, when you have it. It's not always best for describing the game mechanics for a new player though.

[JPierreD]

The thing is that an IG feature is more easily accessible to the new players. And yes, making things more accessible does help with retention. I completely support Anaris' suggestion.

[loren]

I don't know that mentorship is really an ooc thing.  Gregor was a mentor for a long long time and I made sure that my students got lordships over others in my Duchy or in the realm.  When I was Duke in Westmoor I continued the practice with Knights where I could, and I promoted new knights to vice-marshalships to get them involved.  I think Ravier is a nice example of how that can turn out.

I don't have the time to actively pursue it as a side project sort of thing anymore, and frankly my last half dozen students just fell off the face of the earth even though I tried to keep them engaged.  It's not always an easy thing to do.  Point being, anyone can muck about and figure things out, not everyone can get people advanced faster to make them want to stick around and get more power and influence.

[fodder]

well... you are teaching the player or new knights of new families i guess...  so.. it depends on how you read it.

[Anaris]

I don't know that mentorship is really an ooc thing.

It is.

And it is IC.

That's part of the problem: that something this important has been made this confusing and ambiguous.

No character should be teaching people how to play the game. Characters should be teaching people how to play the twin games of politics and war, not the game of BattleMaster.

Gregor was a mentor for a long long time and I made sure that my students got lordships over others in my Duchy or in the realm.  When I was Duke in Westmoor I continued the practice with Knights where I could, and I promoted new knights to vice-marshalships to get them involved.

And I see no problem with continuing this practice, but it should be done on a more IC level—and, ideally, done through the liege relationship, as that is precisely where it makes most sense.

The problem is that teaching people how to play BattleMaster should not be tied to this sort of thing.

[loren]

What if we made an HTML5 tutorial?  One that would simulate a turn in rapid fashion.  It could pull the system clock of a person and let them know how long an action taken now would have to wait to see a result.  I could be completely scripted down to even sending messages to the whole realm, to individuals and the like.

It could even have a scripted battle etc.

[Chaotrance13]

I don't know that mentorship is really an ooc thing.  Gregor was a mentor for a long long time and I made sure that my students got lordships over others in my Duchy or in the realm.  When I was Duke in Westmoor I continued the practice with Knights where I could, and I promoted new knights to vice-marshalships to get them involved.  I think Ravier is a nice example of how that can turn out.

Indeed. He's now the Marshal after Arica started a rebellion, been made a Baron by the peasantry in Gadlock, and now also has caused consternation in the realm due to his recent death duel. The fun never stops!

[loren]

Fun indeed.  And its only just begun, you're missing out on Jor being an ass =)

[Chenier]

How much do people think that mentoring should be in-realm and how much should it be realm independent?

I could, theoretically, set up a "mentoring guild" that has NPC-run guildhouses in every city and stronghold and every new player gets automatically added as a member, or something.

Hmmm... realm-dependant helps integrate the player with the people he should be mostly playing with, but sometimes (often) the realm level isn't a large enough pool of players/mentors anymore...