The Crusade against SA

[JPierreD]

I have a hard time believing they will peacefully give Golden Farrow. I know I would fall fighting, leaving the new Astroist colony left to defend itself from the new rogue regions' spawns. Specially since SA is not negotiating with Itaulond, the only one who seems interested in doing it.

[Indirik]

Who would want to negotiate with Itaulond? And why?

[Zakilevo]

We can just hammer both.. for good.. I would rather face the monsters than the backstabbers.

[Gustav Kuriga]

The Wolf of Kabrinsky fears no monster!

[Geronus]

I have a hard time believing they will peacefully give Golden Farrow. I know I would fall fighting, leaving the new Astroist colony left to defend itself from the new rogue regions' spawns. Specially since SA is not negotiating with Itaulond, the only one who seems interested in doing it.

We're going to get it one way or another at this point. We have essentially decided that we can't allow them to survive with enough power to ever threaten us again. This more or less demands that we take away Golden Farrow and plant a new realm there to keep them in check. They should be glad. The alternative would be to destroy them outright, burning their cities and sowing their fields with salt so to speak.

[Chenier]

It's a pity they fail at diplomacy so bad. The southern realms could probably brought to actually bring military forces to support Caerwyn, it's no less far-fetched than the participation of all the SA realms we saw. And I think they would all prefer that Caerwyn remain than to see Allison as a neighbor.

Can't just barge in and spark a world war either, though. Caerwyn should have attempted to cut their losses long ago...

[Indirik]

It would have been a slightly different story if they had. But I doubt they would have been able to stop the massive starvation. It's not like a peace treaty would suddenly make food appear.

[Vellos]

It's a pity they fail at diplomacy so bad. The southern realms could probably brought to actually bring military forces to support Caerwyn, it's no less far-fetched than the participation of all the SA realms we saw. And I think they would all prefer that Caerwyn remain than to see Allison as a neighbor.

Can't just barge in and spark a world war either, though. Caerwyn should have attempted to cut their losses long ago...

I think you overstate these possibilities.

Terran would not, in any world, have deployed military forces to support Caerwyn. Even our staunchest anti-SA folks categorically rejected giving military support to Caerwyn. We only ever allied with them out of an emergency attempt at forming a league around the Zuma; no formal alliance terms were ever drafted. They've been polite enough neighbors, but never really the types we would go to great lengths supporting.

If Asylon got in big trouble, we would at least want to help. But with Caerwyn... it's not just a logistical thing. We really don't see any reason why we ought to help. Very few in Terran know anything of Allison, and even those who do, while having a healthy respect for her influence and attitude, view the possibility of her inciting a major war against the Véinsørmoot as quite distant.

Maybe opinions are different in D'Hara, but, in Terran, it would take a pretty radical shift to get us to defend Caerwyn. When Asylon broke their colonial agreement with Terran recently, you didn't see Terran sticking up for Caerwyn, did you? No. You did not. You didn't see us sticking up for Asylon either. In regards to the north, aside from cordial mid-level relations with Asylon, we mostly like to just live-and-let-live.

[dustole]

The sad part is that even if I do get Golden Farrow my campaign has utterly destroyed the city.   It will take me a long time to rebuild to a point where I would be a threat to anyone.        

On the plus side, the cities population is reduced to a manageable level.   I can let it grow without having to worry about having enough food to feed 100k peasants.   Or maybe it is 90k, I am not sure what the max population of Golden Farrow is.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I think you overstate these possibilities.

Terran would not, in any world, have deployed military forces to support Caerwyn. Even our staunchest anti-SA folks categorically rejected giving military support to Caerwyn. We only ever allied with them out of an emergency attempt at forming a league around the Zuma; no formal alliance terms were ever drafted. They've been polite enough neighbors, but never really the types we would go to great lengths supporting.

If Asylon got in big trouble, we would at least want to help. But with Caerwyn... it's not just a logistical thing. We really don't see any reason why we ought to help. Very few in Terran know anything of Allison, and even those who do, while having a healthy respect for her influence and attitude, view the possibility of her inciting a major war against the Véinsørmoot as quite distant.

Maybe opinions are different in D'Hara, but, in Terran, it would take a pretty radical shift to get us to defend Caerwyn. When Asylon broke their colonial agreement with Terran recently, you didn't see Terran sticking up for Caerwyn, did you? No. You did not. You didn't see us sticking up for Asylon either. In regards to the north, aside from cordial mid-level relations with Asylon, we mostly like to just live-and-let-live.

Totally agree and feel the same way.

[Telrunya]

The Alliance between Caerwyn and D'Hara is purely defensive. D'Hara had some more sympathy towards Caerwyn in the past, I think, and should the SA Realms for some reason have attacked them, there surely would have been a debate on aiding them somehow. But since they declared War on their own, and with dubious arguments, D'Hara was saved from needing any kind of discussion on the issue. No support at all and no use of our lands by Madina. Now with Terran and Barca, I believe D'Hara has grown more towards them. D'Hara would probably only get involved if there was an attack on the Marrocidens or her Islands. Besides, with Caerwyn's looting tactics, my character disagrees with them more and more (On the other hand, there's quite some hatred coming from the other side as well). The Alliance now is mostly a leftover from the past with the Colony in Port Nebel and all.

[dustole]

Why is it that Caerwyn is so stubborn?  I thought this war might have taught them a little humility but they are still the same way.   They seem to hate Allison, which I understand, but why would they let that hatred blind them and lead them to their realms compete destruction?

[Anaris]

Why is it that Caerwyn is so stubborn?  I thought this war might have taught them a little humility but they are still the same way.   They seem to hate Allison, which I understand, but why would they let that hatred blind them and lead them to their realms compete destruction?

It's not an uncommon problem.  In the war between Riombara and Luz de Bia (with various other allies on both sides at various times), after a good long time, Riombara gained the upper hand and was beating Luz de Bia in pretty much every battle, camping out in their capital, and taking almost all their other regions.  Riombara offered Luz de Bia peace, multiple times, each time offering back one of the regions we had taken from them.  They always refused.

Their counteroffer was, "Give us back all the regions you took from us, and half the regions that were yours when the war began, and we'll let you live."

They wouldn't even accept our help when the Third Invasion came and ended Riombara's attacks on them, and they were destroyed by either the undead or the Daimons.

[Bedwyr]

I've seen it happen too.  While the last two or three peace offers in the war between Ethiala and Arcaea were quite ridiculous (I amused myself by demanding Keffer's head with various garnishes, like having the tongues of all the dungeon guards nailed to it and the like), I offered at least three real peace treaties after it was clear Arcaea was winning, and they amounted to "we stop at current borders, immediately sell you food to save your cities from starving out, and the Ruler who tortured our Ruler and betrayed the alliance has to step down".  Counter offer was, like in Delvin's case, that we surrender an entire duchy beyond what we'd taken.

On the other hand, the times when people have agreed to reasonable peace treaties didn't work out so well either, as the people involved just waited until the time was right and threw the treaty to the wind (or, in one case, announced that they would do so when they were in position to be crushed), which has led Jenred to believe that peace treaties in general are a waste of time.

[Lopeyschools]

I think if the terms of Astrum didn't demand Golden Farrow then the treaty would have been accepted. Golden Farrow is Caerwyn in a certain sense. Many a Caerwynian views giving Golden Farrow to the Astroists as the same as destruction anyways. No, if the Bloodstar Alliance wants Golden Farrow, they will have to move the thousands of dead bodies from it.