The Crusade against SA

[Chenier]

It's not an uncommon problem.  In the war between Riombara and Luz de Bia (with various other allies on both sides at various times), after a good long time, Riombara gained the upper hand and was beating Luz de Bia in pretty much every battle, camping out in their capital, and taking almost all their other regions.  Riombara offered Luz de Bia peace, multiple times, each time offering back one of the regions we had taken from them.  They always refused.

Their counteroffer was, "Give us back all the regions you took from us, and half the regions that were yours when the war began, and we'll let you live."

They wouldn't even accept our help when the Third Invasion came and ended Riombara's attacks on them, and they were destroyed by either the undead or the Daimons.

Sounds familiar. When Rio declared war on Enweil...

[Indirik]

I think if the terms of Astrum didn't demand Golden Farrow then the treaty would have been accepted. Golden Farrow is Caerwyn in a certain sense. Many a Caerwynian views giving Golden Farrow to the Astroists as the same as destruction anyways. No, if the Bloodstar Alliance wants Golden Farrow, they will have to move the thousands of dead bodies from it.

Meh,  that's what the surviving peasants are for.

[Zakilevo]

I wonder where all those Caerwynian nobles will go once they lose their realm...

[Indirik]

A few of them may join Astrum, or the new realm. That usually happens. Most will probably go south, or to Asylon. Not really sure, though. Since Terran and D'Hara didn't help them, there may be some hard feelings in there. That's assuming they don't just stick with Caerwyn. So far, there has no been no attempt from Caerwyn to reach a realistic settlement. And no attempt to ask how they are supposed to survive, or work out any kind of deal to allow them to live. i.e. help them retake Itau.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I wouldn't expect any Caerwyn nobles to come to Asylon. It would be nice and they would be welcomed because we need the manpower but I highly doubt they would join us. We did manage to gain one new player from Itaulond though which was nice!

[Bedwyr]

Which leaves even further south...Madina and Aurvandil could certainly use them, as could Fissoa and either of the Lurian realms.

[Fleugs]

A few of them may join Astrum, or the new realm. That usually happens. Most will probably go south, or to Asylon. Not really sure, though. Since Terran and D'Hara didn't help them, there may be some hard feelings in there. That's assuming they don't just stick with Caerwyn. So far, there has no been no attempt from Caerwyn to reach a realistic settlement. And no attempt to ask how they are supposed to survive, or work out any kind of deal to allow them to live. i.e. help them retake Itau.

Yesterday (and today) they explicitly refused such offers, made by Astrum. Of course we as Corsanctum have little influence in these matters because our power and presence is very limited - a shame for SA, really. In any case it seems that the Caerwyn leadership is stubborn enough to let their entire realm go to waste rather than act like a beaten dog, suck it up, and stay alive to plot revenge on another day. Their loss, I think.

What I find rather strange about this war is that now SA will dominate about half of  the continent without a problem (nice hegemony), but it hasn't increased in numbers of nobles as you would expect. In fact, I dare say that it has reduced in nobles while it was continuously gaining ground. Two things come to mind; first, will SA stick together like they do now or will internal conflicts erupt? Second, will they even be able to keep the amount of land they have now, due to the reduced amount of nobles and the increased amount of land to cover.

In Corsanctum we have been discussing for several days now who the Lord of Tamirak should be. We have three units there (our army!) ready to "take it over". I'm sceptical. I think we can't keep it. We have only 18 (19?) nobles in the realm. It will just be another fiasco. The danger of stretching out like SA is doing now, is that you have to do more with less. Nobles will be occupied with keeping their region in control and that will require all their time. If SA is attacked, will they be able to answer strongly without loosing ground in their backyard?

I think the religion needs to attract new nobles by making it more appealing. Right now it's kind of a dead place to me, despite all the warnings that as a full member I would be swamped in messages (biggest lie ever). Hopefully they can set up a "funwar" in between realms which would attract more nobles and keep them busy. But it's all fun and games until someone looses an eye.

A victory for SA, that is for sure, but it's on the verge of imploding because it lacks the appeal to attract the nobles it needs.

[Indirik]

What I find rather strange about this war is that now SA will dominate about half of  the continent without a problem (nice hegemony), but it hasn't increased in numbers of nobles as you would expect. In fact, I dare say that it has reduced in nobles while it was continuously gaining ground.

Yes, the religion itself has stopped attracting new nobles.But have the realms? Not everyone in a theocracy is a member of the religion. And at this point, probably everyone on the island who wants to join, has joined. Unless we break into some of the farther southern realms, I don't expect that to really change.

... it's on the verge of imploding because it lacks the appeal to attract the nobles it needs.

Is't that pretty much the same thing for everyone on Dwilight?

[Fleugs]

Yes, the religion itself has stopped attracting new nobles.But have the realms? Not everyone in a theocracy is a member of the religion. And at this point, probably everyone on the island who wants to join, has joined. Unless we break into some of the farther southern realms, I don't expect that to really change.

Well, one solution to this is both encouraging nobles to join the Church (or whatever) and work with constantly increasing or "vital" content. This religion should reach out into the very daily aspect of every noble and should supply it with enough material to enable any player to use it properly. I have repeatedly asked the Elders of SA if they could explain their religion in person to me, and most just link you to the wiki... now that's just bad PR. Every elder who takes his or her job a little serious will try to explain religion ingame. It's nice for those who want it that way and it's just plain good roleplay. Linking to a wikipage is like saying "I really don't care enough  to explain it". Perhaps there could be religious mentors?

Is't that pretty much the same thing for everyone on Dwilight?

Yes, I still believe that Dwilight is a failed continent. Way too big, way too boring. Religious domination is nice and all but Dwilight, or at least most parts of it, are in a downward spiral concerning numbers of nobles. This doesn't surprise me. I've been in Madina once and that is truly the lousiest most worthless realm ever. It's just... dead silent. Like everyone gave up. Seems like it's spreading to Corsanctum now. Maybe I just bring it with me.

I'm still all in favour of closing down Dwilight or brutally chopping it in half and closing one part down, so there can be more fun elsewhere.

[Anaris]

Sounds familiar. When Rio declared war on Enweil...

*nods sagely*

Yes, and that was what led ultimately to the total destruction of Riom...

Wait, what?

[vonGenf]

Well, one solution to this is both encouraging nobles to join the Church (or whatever) and work with constantly increasing or "vital" content. This religion should reach out into the very daily aspect of every noble and should supply it with enough material to enable any player to use it properly. I have repeatedly asked the Elders of SA if they could explain their religion in person to me, and most just link you to the wiki... now that's just bad PR. Every elder who takes his or her job a little serious will try to explain religion ingame. It's nice for those who want it that way and it's just plain good roleplay. Linking to a wikipage is like saying "I really don't care enough  to explain it". Perhaps there could be religious mentors?

Asking specific questions is more likely to get you an interesting answers. Everyone has already given a bullet point explanation of the religion, so sending people to the wiki is natural for generic questions.

I suggest you ask again. If the question is specific enough, it's likely to foster debate. I hear some people miss the full member channel epic message volumes....

Yes, I still believe that Dwilight is a failed continent. Way too big, way too boring. Religious domination is nice and all but Dwilight, or at least most parts of it, are in a downward spiral concerning numbers of nobles. This doesn't surprise me. I've been in Madina once and that is truly the lousiest most worthless realm ever. It's just... dead silent. Like everyone gave up. Seems like it's spreading to Corsanctum now. Maybe I just bring it with me.

I'm still all in favour of closing down Dwilight or brutally chopping it in half and closing one part down, so there can be more fun elsewhere.

Doesn't the 20% rise in registration for Dwilight contradict you a bit?

[Lorgan]

Doesn't the 20% rise in registration for Dwilight contradict you a bit?

Dwilight is great, but it's the worst place to have a 1 noble per family rule. Though I suppose that keeps more nobles on other, even more fun continents.. ;)

[Fleugs]

Asking specific questions is more likely to get you an interesting answers. Everyone has already given a bullet point explanation of the religion, so sending people to the wiki is natural for generic questions.

I suggest you ask again. If the question is specific enough, it's likely to foster debate. I hear some people miss the full member channel epic message volumes....

New people come into a religion. I wouldn't say on a daily basis, but they come quite often. Sending someone to a wiki is... a bummer. It kills my enthusiasm instantly. But maybe others like it.

Doesn't the 20% rise in registration for Dwilight contradict you a bit?

I see what I see, hear what I hear. Never heard of the 20% rise in registration specifically because of Dwilight. Is it SMA that attracts players? Nonsense. Yesterday nobles in Golden Farrow were calling each other pigs and pork, and it has been like that for a long time now.

By the way, from what I hear (and see), the player base is just getting smaller and smaller.

[Lorgan]

What's unmedieval about pigs?

[Peri]

It's not an uncommon problem.

Same with Fontan and Sirion. I applauded Perdan publicly because they acknowledged defeat and could cut a good surrender deal, and now they're making a great comeback. Stubbornness is just one of those things that really ruin a realm.

Yesterday (and today) they explicitly refused such offers, made by Astrum. Of course we as Corsanctum have little influence in these matters because our power and presence is very limited - a shame for SA, really. In any case it seems that the Caerwyn leadership is stubborn enough to let their entire realm go to waste rather than act like a beaten dog, suck it up, and stay alive to plot revenge on another day. Their loss, I think.

Medugnatus had his saying just as Busto did in agreeing on the terms. In addition, Brance added to the treaty all terms that the elders required, and a good portion of the elders are from Corsanctum. If you refer the "a shame for SA" to the fact that Corsanctum should be the holy realm, well, they lost the occasion of doing it, exploiting their "holiness" to obtain secular advantages in a stupid way, making astrum and morek very convinced of not giving them this acknowledgement in the future. Plus don't forget that this war is formally against the church but in practice against Astrum. I think it's quite unlikely that Astrum will settle down to ask what the church orders them to, whatever the church true power comes from - be it Corsanctum or not.

What I find rather strange about this war is that now SA will dominate about half of  the continent without a problem (nice hegemony), but it hasn't increased in numbers of nobles as you would expect. In fact, I dare say that it has reduced in nobles while it was continuously gaining ground. Two things come to mind; first, will SA stick together like they do now or will internal conflicts erupt? Second, will they even be able to keep the amount of land they have now, due to the reduced amount of nobles and the increased amount of land to cover.

In Corsanctum we have been discussing for several days now who the Lord of Tamirak should be. We have three units there (our army!) ready to "take it over". I'm sceptical. I think we can't keep it. We have only 18 (19?) nobles in the realm. It will just be another fiasco. The danger of stretching out like SA is doing now, is that you have to do more with less. Nobles will be occupied with keeping their region in control and that will require all their time. If SA is attacked, will they be able to answer strongly without loosing ground in their backyard?

I think the religion needs to attract new nobles by making it more appealing. Right now it's kind of a dead place to me, despite all the warnings that as a full member I would be swamped in messages (biggest lie ever). Hopefully they can set up a "funwar" in between realms which would attract more nobles and keep them busy. But it's all fun and games until someone looses an eye.

A victory for SA, that is for sure, but it's on the verge of imploding because it lacks the appeal to attract the nobles it needs.

I agree. Morek has the same problem, we're dwindling in nobles even if after all war is always there. Can't really objectively say whether it's a fun realm or not for the average knight, but certainly it's not one of the places where you can have a lightning fast career as all large realms. It's just a common problem of bm (or good thing about it) that successful realms will run out of enemies and interesting things to do, thus starting to lose ground and evening up the odds with their neighbors.

I think if the terms of Astrum didn't demand Golden Farrow then the treaty would have been accepted. Golden Farrow is Caerwyn in a certain sense. Many a Caerwynian views giving Golden Farrow to the Astroists as the same as destruction anyways. No, if the Bloodstar Alliance wants Golden Farrow, they will have to move the thousands of dead bodies from it.

Considering that golden farrow starved down to 10.000 peasants, and almost all Caerwyn's rurals are on the brink of revolt I don't see how SA can do more damage.. It's really just a matter of time, a peaceful transition would have speed up things, but everything else it's going to be the same. Caerwyn's regions are already in such a terrible shape that takeovers won't really change anything.