SF RC cap

[Charles]

I'm not really a friend of the "soft cap", because we already have to play tricks in the code to make sure that some RCs recruit anything at all, because otherwise they would tend to recruit extremely slowly. This would only make it worse.

If this is in response to 50% drop in training for the last 20%, then do less of a change, 25%?  Or increase the training in general, I really do not know what the factors are in training, I assume the region type and population have an effect.  Have those other factors which cause training to drop be less effective?

[Tom]

implemented higher caps and faster recruitment for empty centers.

[Geronus]

A better solution to this problem would, in my opinion, simply be to further increase the Honor to Recuitment Cap ratio. If at 150 honor (which takes considerable time to amass for most people) I can still only recruit 25 Cav/SF, most people aren't going to bother to recruit them at all, making them the playthings of the very honorable and Cavaliers/Heroes, and those class options come with major drawbacks (like losing all your region maintenance/looting buttons and that non-trivial chance of death in battle).

Since there already seems to have been a decision though, I would add the following:

Particularly for cavalry, if their numbers are going to be restricted then they need to be better. SF seem to have artificially higher median equipment and training values (rare though not impossible to see any stat under 70%), but cavalry span the full range from useless (25%) to awe-inspiring (100%). This change will make low-end cavalry entirely useless. Why would you want cheap cavalry when your center is going to take forever to fill up anyway? They're only good in numbers, so really they're not good at all anymore.

My advice would be to bump up the average equipment/training values on cavalry centers. Maybe not as high as SF, but higher than they are. After all, you can't just draft a peasant and stick him on a warhorse. Cavalry require specialized training and were historically either born to the saddle, as in many central asian peoples, or were professional soldiers, and you didn't arm your cavalry with pitchforks.

[Zakilevo]

A better solution to this problem would, in my opinion, simply be to further increase the Honor to Recuitment Cap ratio. If at 150 honor (which takes considerable time to amass for most people) I can still only recruit 25 Cav/SF, most people aren't going to bother to recruit them at all, making them the playthings of the very honorable and Cavaliers/Heroes, and those class options come with major drawbacks (like losing all your region maintenance/looting buttons and that non-trivial chance of death in battle).

Since there already seems to have been a decision though, I would add the following:

Particularly for cavalry, if their numbers are going to be restricted then they need to be better. SF seem to have artificially higher median equipment and training values (rare though not impossible to see any stat under 70%), but cavalry span the full range from useless (25%) to awe-inspiring (100%). This change will make low-end cavalry entirely useless. Why would you want cheap cavalry when your center is going to take forever to fill up anyway? They're only good in numbers, so really they're not good at all anymore.

My advice would be to bump up the average equipment/training values on cavalry centers. Maybe not as high as SF, but higher than they are. After all, you can't just draft a peasant and stick him on a warhorse. Cavalry require specialized training and were historically either born to the saddle, as in many central asian peoples, or were professional soldiers, and you didn't arm your cavalry with pitchforks.

I agree. Low Quality centers should have some advantage over high Quality centers. Didn't Tom mention something about dividing the cavalry unit into two categories?

For now maybe let low quality centers to fill up a lot quicker with higher caps than high quality centers?

[Indirik]

For now maybe let low quality centers to fill up a lot quicker

They already do. Most people just don't notice the difference until they realize that their 90/90-5/90 size 1 SF RC in a low-pop rural hasn't been training any recruits lately.

[Indirik]

A better solution to this problem would, in my opinion, simply be to further increase the Honor to Recuitment Cap ratio. If at 150 honor (which takes considerable time to amass for most people) I can still only recruit 25 Cav/SF, most people aren't going to bother to recruit them at all, making them the playthings of the very honorable and Cavaliers/Heroes, and those class options come with major drawbacks (like losing all your region maintenance/looting buttons and that non-trivial chance of death in battle).

Making honor more important for SF/Cav is a good idea, IMO. For most people, hitting 4-50 honor is more than enough to hire all the troops they can normally afford. Only the people leading the TO unit, or the rich dukes, usually need the more honor to hire the size units they want.

[Zakilevo]

why not make prestige decide how many SF you can hire? it is harder to gain high prestige.

[Dante Silverfire]

why not make prestige decide how many SF you can hire? it is harder to gain high prestige.

You can only recruit as many SF as you have prestige?

Here's kind of hoping that doesn't get implemented, but by what I can see, something along those lines may be what Tom is interested in?

[Velax]

Making honor more important for SF/Cav is a good idea, IMO. For most people, hitting 4-50 honor is more than enough to hire all the troops they can normally afford. Only the people leading the TO unit, or the rich dukes, usually need the more honor to hire the size units they want.

Aren't Honour and Prestige getting reworked anyway?

[egamma]

Aren't Honour and Prestige getting reworked anyway?

Yes, but Tom apparently wants to cut back on SF now.

[feyeleanor]

Surely the easiest way to restrict SF usage is to lower the probability of an SF RC being built, either generally or specifically in Cities and Strongholds (which would effectively abolish lvl 4 RCs).

[Foundation]

It is already frustrating to try to build a good SF RC if you have any RC already.

[fodder]

sorry for digging this up...

but what was the final change?

I can see daily reports that says my sf centres are "full" when they have 60 men (lvl 3).. yet the draft screen says max is 100 (since i missed this a couple of weeks back, i might not be able to test whether i can draft over the cap of 60, due to proximity of daimons and the refitting army.... it might just be possible before the next turn... 1 centre is at 59 men)

also.. as far as i can see, the daily recruitment rate is constant?
--
1 soft draft allegedly found 5 men..

and there were 64 men... in the centre.

so.. i take it for lvl 3 there's a cap on daily recruits at 60.. but you can draft up to 100 then?

[Penchant]

In one region I am knight of the lvl 1 SF center max is 20.

[egamma]

Level 2 cavalry center is full at 46.