SF RC cap

[Tom]

That's...definitely not true. The SF RC sizes were the same as all the other types. If they are not now, that's a big change that will not at all be welcomed.

You're right. The cap is new. Everything else (less recruits per day, etc.) isn't, but the cap is.

[Anaris]

You're right. The cap is new. Everything else (less recruits per day, etc.) isn't, but the cap is.

OK, then: Why the hell did we you add it? What purpose does it serve, other than to make SF RCs a truly abominable investment?

[egamma]

OK, then: Why the hell did we you add it? What purpose does it serve, other than to make SF RCs a truly abominable investment?

Yeah, not cool. And I don't ever use SF. But if I build an RC, I expect that RC to recruit 25 units.

[Dante Silverfire]

OK, then: Why the hell did we you add it? What purpose does it serve, other than to make SF RCs a truly abominable investment?

I'm also interested in why the change was made.

If the reason is to make SF more rare, then I think that can be done better in a different way. Perhaps raise the price of upgrading an SF recruitment center? Raise the upkeep cost (dramatically perhaps?) Reduce the chances of creating one? I just think, by limiting the # of maximum held recruits to 25, SF centers are essentially made useless or at least they are completely changed in the way we as characters would have to build units around them.

Usually (as far as my experience goes, which granted is limited) SF are only recruited by the wealthy of the realm as they have a high cost. These characters are also ones that have a higher honor so they can recruit more men. The goal is to get a very strong unit with one character and thus greatly increase their contribution to an army. However, this usually involves them recruiting perhaps a unit of 50 SF which can easily reach 1000 cs. (For reference, my character currently has a 66 SF unit for 1350cs.) This change though would make it impossible for such a unit to be made. If that is the purpose of this change, then I must agree it will be successful. Although, I would disagree that this is a change that needs to be made, or that perhaps it couldn't be achieved through one of the above methods.

[egamma]

I would rather see SF limited to 25 recruits, and level 2 and level 3 merely increase the recruits per day. 25 SF can do serious damage, but not if the center doesn't have that number of recruits.

[fodder]

Yeah, right. Because making things more complicated without any actual benefit is what we enjoy doing.

i wouldn't say no benefits. questionable perhaps. allows you to get variety like huge capacity rc but crap rate. (for those useless TO/militia type that you probably won't touch normally...) or great rate but crap capacity.

perhaps an estate thing instead? eg.. allows you to recruit from a private stash of recruits (from rc of your region)... if someone else emptied the public lot first..

[LilWolf]

I would rather see SF limited to 25 recruits, and level 2 and level 3 merely increase the recruits per day. 25 SF can do serious damage, but not if the center doesn't have that number of recruits.

Except that at that point you're better off getting a good infantry/archer center than can actually provide a unit for two nobles instead of a single wealthy one. It becomes extremely hard to justify the cost for SF, especially the cost of expanding the center. They're already bordering on too expensive to be worth it.

[Charles]

I guess it would be good to know what the problem was and what this solution is actually intended to do.

[Tom]

egamma has it right. The problem is that there would be 100 SF available after a long enough wait, and that's a very serious number. I wanted to make SF have more than just money to make them rare.

[Lorgan]

egamma has it right. The problem is that there would be 100 SF available after a long enough wait, and that's a very serious number. I wanted to make SF have more than just money to make them rare.

Just off the top of my head: how about requiring a high enough leadership and/or swordfighting skill to be able to recruit SF?

Leadership because they're not normal soldiers and you need to be able to lead them in difficult circumstances.
Swordfighting because these seasoned warriors won't follow just any green nobleman.

[Dante Silverfire]

Just off the top of my head: how about requiring a high enough leadership and/or swordfighting skill to be able to recruit SF?

Leadership because they're not normal soldiers and you need to be able to lead them in difficult circumstances.
Swordfighting because these seasoned warriors won't follow just any green nobleman.

If swordfighting is a requirement, then R5 SF would not be able to be recruited for players that only ever use archers. So, I don't think that's a good requirement.

[Lorgan]

If swordfighting is a requirement, then R5 SF would not be able to be recruited for players that only ever use archers. So, I don't think that's a good requirement.

Most ranged SF units (that I've seen) will kick any infantry unit's ass in melee though. Anyway, that's why I said "and/or"

[Anaris]

egamma has it right. The problem is that there would be 100 SF available after a long enough wait, and that's a very serious number. I wanted to make SF have more than just money to make them rare.

In practice, this almost never happens with SF that are actually worth their cost.  Even in peacetime, they tend to be chronically in short supply, because they are trained very slowly, and only a few people can afford to recruit and maintain the units.  And those few tend to snap them up as soon as they're available.

[Lorgan]

Tim is right though. I've never seen SF being used very much with the exception of when I was in Melhed and people had months to recruit and train units that seldom saw battle, and if they did it was against rogue undead or monsters. That sort of unit building was much more of a pass-time than a preparation for war.

Recently the amount of SF units on BT has also increased as their recruitment is encouraged because of their effectiveness against daimons, but still they are only a marginal part of any army.

[Tom]

but still they are only a marginal part of any army.

They should be.