Tweak Request: Priests and region pages

[Chenier]

perhaps in addition to the realm name after the noble name/titles, they get a (big/medium/small retinue) tag, if they have a unit?

or even, no description of size...

something like..

X, lord of Y, realm Z and retinue. (if they have a unit)
X, lord of Y, realm Z. (if they have no unit)

The realm name could be added after the region affiliation, or this.

But I don't see any reason for obfuscating this information at all. This is just a nerf against the tiny minority of players who play a priest without playing a non-priest in the same realm for no good reason.

Traders, diplomats, courtiers, none of them are involved in the military, and they still get access to this (very basic) info.

I also question the utility of having priests not able to see troops abroad either, now that I think of it. After all, they are easy as hell to arrest. You don't need to view them as evil anymore, as it used to be back then.

[Indirik]

Declaration of evil was never a requirement to arrest a priest. It takes a war declaration.

And the reason priests can't see troops is so they can't be used as insta-scouts. Their ability to move multiple regions asynchronously has in the past been used in a military capacity to do deep scouting of the enemy without risk of getting stabbed/skirmished/captured/etc. The same applies to adventurers.

[Penchant]

Well there is no good reason they can't see realm though, agreed? I doubt knowing that a noble is of a certain realm would be used for scouting and if so it already can be done its just troublesome. So would an override of goverment members automatically get to see same as everyone else when it comes to troops in realm regions, regardless of if they are a priest or not be possible?

[Indirik]

Knowing the realm a noble is from is no secret. If you know the first name, you can find the realm easily enough. But I can see no reason for the game to /not/ give it to you right from the start.

Seeing all the normal details (troop number/type/etc.) for all regions in your own realm is, IMO, fine. Everyone in a realm can look at any of their own regions and see who's there, any time. I don't see any reason to exclude priests from that. It's only when you go outside your realm that it becomes an issue.

I see no particular reason to make any special exemptions for government members. There is no compelling reason to make exceptions just because you're the banker.

[Penchant]

I agree with you on all points. I just thought you were against priests getting to see normal details in your own realm's region's which is why I proposed the override. Also one situtition where a banker would want to know is if it is a large force of realm that is known to steal/burn food thus effecting the banker job but if you agree with priests being able to see normal details then my override idea doesn't matter.

[fodder]

Traders, diplomats, courtiers, none of them are involved in the military, and they still get access to this (very basic) info.

you are wrong there. they can have a unit. if they choose not to have a unit, that's their prerogative. a priest can't have a unit

[Chenier]

Declaration of evil was never a requirement to arrest a priest. It takes a war declaration.

And the reason priests can't see troops is so they can't be used as insta-scouts. Their ability to move multiple regions asynchronously has in the past been used in a military capacity to do deep scouting of the enemy without risk of getting stabbed/skirmished/captured/etc. The same applies to adventurers.

The declaration of war was not part of the priest game at first. It came in much later, because priests were being arrested left and right and nobody cared about it.

Also, seeing troops in your own region doesn't give you any advantage over anyone else in the realm, as nobody needs to travel to get that info.

As for deep scouting, I see little difference with normal scouts. I've done a fair bit of scouting/looting behind enemy lines with my troops, and whatever could have stopped me could have stopped a priest just as easily. Even more so, as all they'd need is 1 noble with a police unit instead of rallying enough troops to defeat my own unit.

Knowing the realm a noble is from is no secret. If you know the first name, you can find the realm easily enough. But I can see no reason for the game to /not/ give it to you right from the start.

Seeing all the normal details (troop number/type/etc.) for all regions in your own realm is, IMO, fine. Everyone in a realm can look at any of their own regions and see who's there, any time. I don't see any reason to exclude priests from that. It's only when you go outside your realm that it becomes an issue.

I see no particular reason to make any special exemptions for government members. There is no compelling reason to make exceptions just because you're the banker.

I agree, government members shouldn't be the only ones. Should be all priests that get access to this info. Being a ruler and not seeing this stuff just makes it a whole lot more aggravating than usual.

you are wrong there. they can have a unit. if they choose not to have a unit, that's their prerogative. a priest can't have a unit

But priests can incite riots and claim regions, what's your point? The capacity to hire a ridiculously small unit (courtiers and diplomats) or a needlessly pricey one (traders) does not make them any more pertinent to war than priests are. Hell, as priests can get arrested by people with units, you'd figure it'd be nice for priests to know when they ARE facing nobles with units. When there's someone else in the same region as a priest, he has no idea whether he's safe or not, as all he gets is a name, not the presence or absence of troops.

By the way, this is an example of what my priest/ambassador ruler gets on BT:

Military
Nobles

    Nhoc Zonka (Lord)
    Guillaume Chénier, Hetman of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na, Duke of Iato, Senator of Iato, Ambassador of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na
    Miroslav Chénier, Senator of Sandlakes, Marshal of the Iat'r Cossacks
    Glenen Darksun (Knight of Sandlakes)
    Sir Ramkin Kirt (Noble)
    Sir Darnham Kirt, Yesaul of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na, Senator of Tsamn

I get the same thing on Dwilight. A whole bunch of "(Lord)"s and "(Noble)"s. Even IF I manage to remember the hundreds of regions of the continent, I still always get a ton of these things. Or is other cases, I get stuff like "Knight of Agyr" or other such Melhed region when I KNOW for a fact that the noble is aligned to one of Fheuv'n's regions.

[Anaris]

As for deep scouting, I see little difference with normal scouts. I've done a fair bit of scouting/looting behind enemy lines with my troops, and whatever could have stopped me could have stopped a priest just as easily. Even more so, as all they'd need is 1 noble with a police unit instead of rallying enough troops to defeat my own unit.

But there is a difference. A priest can move in, get scouting information, and then get out—either back to safety, or further into enemy territory. Furthermore, priests can move at any time during the turn, and there is no way to tell whether they have the hours necessary to move out. With all this, it can be very difficult to catch a priest who is attempting to scout you, and absolutely impossible to be sure of which regions he has scouted when.

All that makes a huge difference when compared to regular noble characters.

[Tom]

Topic locked, as announced earlier. This is not a feature request, it's a discussion. It needs to either be re-formulated as a feature request, detailling exaclty what change is requested so we can decide if we want to accept it or not - or alternatively a discussion in the Development board where the idea can be fleshed out until a proper feature request can be made.