Tweak Request: Priests and region pages

[Chenier]

As it is, every member of a realm can check the region pages of his realm at all times to see who is there, and what troops they lead.

Except priests.

Now, I get that the idea was to prevent priests from acting as scouts, when their ability to see troops was removed, but this limitation is not necessary. Everyone else can always see troops in regions of the realm regardless of where they are. I would requests that priests also have access to this information (while keeping the current restriction for foreign lands the priest may be in). Just the basic stuff: troop leader, troop type, noble's realm. As it is, priests have no way of knowing who leads units and to what realms they belong to, even in their own realm. To know what realm a noble belongs to, one has to constantly look it up on the character list, which is tedious.

    Title: Priests having access to same region data in-realm as everyone else.
    Summary: Priests are currently the only ones who can't see troop info of regions in their own realm and can't tell the faith of the region's lord.
    Details: Make priests once again have the ability to view what faith the region lord belongs to and make them able to be able to click on region page links for their own realm's regions and see troops present as any other noble character would.
    Benefits: Priests used to be able to tell lords' faith as everyone else. This seems to have gotten removed quite lately, seems like a bug but it ain't getting fixed despite it being mentioned regularly. As for troops, it's outlined in the paragraph above. Being a priest shouldn't make one a worse government member, rulers and such need access to this extremely basic information that the vast majority of characters (ex: 92% on BT) have. Not only does it not make any sense at all to be in a region, talking with foreigners as a ruler and not have the slightest idea of whether the trespassers are leading troops or not, but finding out what realm these people belong to, just with region allegiance, is a huge and unnecessary hassle. In a lot of cases I've seen, those with priests characters usually have a second non-priest character, which allows them to bypass this senseless restriction without a sweat. But those who don't dump two characters in the same realm in this way are therefore unfairly penalized, and, in my opinion, for no good reason at all. One shouldn't have to go hassle other nobles to know if the guy in front of himself leads troops or not.
    Possible Exploits: None, because it doesn't affect adventurers (which aren't nobles anyways), and still prevents priests from acting as scouts, which was the purpose of the limitation when first implemented.

[Tom]

Priests do get a list of nobles in the current region. Is that not enough? For what specific purpose do you need info?

[Foundation]

Please edit the OP to follow the subboard guidelines.

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2131.0.html

[vonGenf]

Priests do get a list of nobles in the current region. Is that not enough? For what specific purpose do you need info?

It's the difference between

Kepler , Baron of Nowheretown

and

Kepler, Baron of Nowheretown, Nowhereland

Now, this is in fact not a priest-specific request. All nobles see unitless nobles identified only by their regions, and not their realms. I can rationalize that by thinking that units always show their colors, while a noble travelling alone would not necessarily carry a flag around.

However, given that it is in fact easy to find out where a noble is from, the end result is only to get people to click on the continental noble list more often.

[Chenier]

It's the difference between

Kepler , Baron of Nowheretown

and

Kepler, Baron of Nowheretown, Nowhereland

Now, this is in fact not a priest-specific request. All nobles see unitless nobles identified only by their regions, and not their realms. I can rationalize that by thinking that units always show their colors, while a noble travelling alone would not necessarily carry a flag around.

However, given that it is in fact easy to find out where a noble is from, the end result is only to get people to click on the continental noble list more often.

Indeed. While I know BT pretty well by now, Dwi has a crapload of regions. And just in general, there are too many regions to remember which is where by name.

Priests do get a list of nobles in the current region. Is that not enough? For what specific purpose do you need info?

My rulers tend to be priests. It's frustrating that I can't tell the difference between a lord priest and a dude with 100 infantry that enters my realm. I see a ton of nobles in a specific region: are they all from the same realm, do they lead big units, should I concern myself with something? No idea. I have to do a huge research to find out which realm they all belong to to answer the first. For the second, on BT I have to log on with my other char to check it out. On Dwi, I have to request people to copy/paste the region info page. It's a lot of work for very basic info.

People with government positions need to know these things. And priests should involve themselves with politics for religions to blossom.

The restriction was to prevent priest scouting, which I get. However, this in info that's available to everyone else in the realm, it wouldn't incite priests to stop acting like priests.

[Draco Tanos]

Maybe block the CS numbers from showing for priests?

Though I would certainly like for priests to see the faith of region lords like every other class can...

[Penchant]

Perhaps an override can be done where all government positions see regular stuff regardless of class because even CS matters if your ruler.

[Tom]

This is turning into a discussion.

Either make it a proper feature request, where you detail exactly what it is you want, or the topic will be closed.

[Chenier]

This is turning into a discussion.

Either make it a proper feature request, where you detail exactly what it is you want, or the topic will be closed.

Done.

I find it rather silly to use that bloc for something that's more of a tweak request to return to how the game used to be in a limited fashion than to implement something completely new (where the guidelines make more sense).

[fodder]

the bit about region lord's faith is perhaps outdated. for whatever reason, my priest lord in bt (who just founded a religion in the last week) can see faith of local lord again.

[Charles]

I personally feel that priests should not be concerned with armies.  They can't personally do anything about it anyway, so leave the details to the general and marshals.  Hopefully the realm has not been foolish enough to have those positions filled by priests. 
As to adding what realm a noble is from, it would be nice, but not necessary.  I would say that could be used by all nobles when looking at characters in a region without troops.

[Tom]

Done.

I find it rather silly to use that bloc for something that's more of a tweak request to return to how the game used to be in a limited fashion than to implement something completely new (where the guidelines make more sense).

The discussion shows that it is not such a simple tweak, because it has consequences for gameplay. A simple tweak would be along the lines of "can the weapons/armour display on the unit summary be split up into two rows, please?"

[Draco Tanos]

the bit about region lord's faith is perhaps outdated. for whatever reason, my priest lord in bt (who just founded a religion in the last week) can see faith of local lord again.

Testing continents are not the example where one should check to see if it works or not

[fodder]

perhaps in addition to the realm name after the noble name/titles, they get a (big/medium/small retinue) tag, if they have a unit?

or even, no description of size...

something like..

X, lord of Y, realm Z and retinue. (if they have a unit)
X, lord of Y, realm Z. (if they have no unit)

[Penchant]

Testing continents are not the example where one should check to see if it works or not

Actually testing continents are the place to check, considering stable is being updated to testing so if its on testing eventually it will be on stable.