Approved 6692: Erecting statues and monuments

[Bael]

No upkeep. Too complicated to keep track of who should pay it.

Just make it a building, like everything else in the region: maintained every tax day.

[Indirik]

Why the fixation on charging upkeep? Why is it so important that it be a continuous drain on resources? Just have an initial cost of 1,000+ gold and let it go at that. A marble statue doesn't really require any "upkeep". So long as it was placed on a good foundation, it will still be there hundreds of years later. And besides how much would you charge, 1 gold a week? That's so insignificant that it's not even worth bothering. Any more than that and it becomes more expensive to main a lump of stone than a actual functional, occupied building.

[Tom]

Just make it a building, like everything else in the region: maintained every tax day.

I said no. Why is it so hard to accept that? The reasons have been given extensively by others.

[Zakilevo]

We need to keep things simple. I think maybe it is time to close this thread as well? All the productive ideas came out already I think.

[Penchant]

But has it been accepted or rejected? Want to know so it can be added to the bugtracker if necessary.

[Foundation]

It is under consideration.  Do note that there is a feature freeze right now.

[Penchant]

That seems the point of the bugtracker to me, features that have been accepted are remembered to be done later so that when the devs are not having so much coding to do and can work on other features they can work on the old ones that were accepted thus saving the good ideas. Also I think it best that the thread is not locked until a verdict on accepting it or not has been reached so that we know to add it to the bugtracker if the devs don't feel like it at the moment even though its been accepted and so the players can expect it eventually.

[Foundation]

That seems the point of the bugtracker to me, features that have been accepted are remembered to be done later so that when the devs are not having so much coding to do and can work on other features they can work on the old ones that were accepted thus saving the good ideas. Also I think it best that the thread is not locked until a verdict on accepting it or not has been reached so that we know to add it to the bugtracker if the devs don't feel like it at the moment even though its been accepted and so the players can expect it eventually.

I agree completely, Penchant.  Threads exist to foster discussion with a resulting decision.  Whether that decision is valid or not is another issue, but a decision must be made first.

As Tom has stated, the idea as originally proposed is overly complex.  We've talked about quite a few modifications, does someone want to collect those thoughts and propose a simplified version?  (keyword *simplified*, i.e. shorter too )

[Duvaille]

As Tom has stated, the idea as originally proposed is overly complex.  We've talked about quite a few modifications, does someone want to collect those thoughts and propose a simplified version?  (keyword *simplified*, i.e. shorter too )

Well, since I came up with the idea, I could modify the original proposal to reflect those changes. How short do the developers want it? Although it may not seem like it at times, I can write short. And it's not like this is some complex and potentially game breaking feature that influences many different aspects of the game. It could be summed up with:

Pay 500 gold to erect a statue at your estate in the honor of an existing character. Statues can be also demolished. Until that happens, the statue gives the target character +1 in prestige/fame. When you build a statue, you get to describe its appearance and write a few lines on a plaque attached to it. The statues in a region can be viewed in a "statues tab" that appears behind "religions tab" in the regional view if there are statues present in the region. A realm wide message is sent when a statue is erected and demolished.

Does that capture the essence of the idea? I really have no idea how much detail is beneficial for the devs. I am assuming they need just enough to get the idea and/or remember it and then they wish to work the details themselves, like how it will look visually, where to click, whether to use drop down menus and so on. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

Also, I have left out all of the discussion about benefits and possible exploits, as there seems to be an agreement on them now. So, how do we do this properly?

[Foundation]

• Pay 500 gold to erect a statue at your estate in the honor of an existing character, giving an immediate +1 prestige.
• Statues can be also demolished. Until that happens, the statue gives the target character +1 in prestige/fame.
• When you build a statue, you get to describe its appearance and write a few lines on a plaque attached to it.
• The statues in a region can be viewed in a "statues tab" that appears behind "religions tab" the "descriptions tab" in the regional view.
• A realm wide message is sent when a statue is erected and demolished.

This is excellent progress.  My suggestions inline.  Lists look nicer.

[Duvaille]

Hmm.. this sounds like you gain +1 prestige when a statue is built for you, but when it is demolished, you still get to keep it. Am I correct? I would much prefer to see the prestige tied to the existence of the statue. A tyrant king with all his precious fifty statues deserves to have his prestige demolished together with his statues.

And yes, the list is preciously prettier, and the corrections quite agreeable.

[Foundation]

I think it comes down to either +1 instant prestige forever just like any other game action, or no stat change at all.  I think Unique Items are the only things that are "prestige modifiers" that could be taken away if lost.

Adding another tracking modifier would seem to be overkill, though I like your example.

[Duvaille]

Err.. is there that much tracking to be done? When a statue is built, target character +1 prestige. When a statue is demolished, target character -1 prestige.

Besides, if not done this way, it adds an exploit. You could, with enough gold, build and demolish the same statue umpteen times, and it becomes nothing but a prestige pump. Ugly statues are built here and there, as it does not matter if the uglies are demolished. In fact it gets silly quite easily. To honor a king, one should destroy his statue and built an exact replica to help him gain another point of prestige.

I am sorry, but it gets much worse if prestige is not tracked. It's still nice and usable, but a whole lot more problematic. If tracking prestige can not be had, I would much rather do away with the prestige bonus entirely to avoid silliness. But then there is no need for a target character either, so we'd be left with monuments that could be about just anything.

This is such a central question to the entire feature, that I would very much like to wait for Tom's ruling on it before proceeding further with it.

[Zakilevo]

Or we can just make the person whoever erects statues get 1 permanent prestige or fame only. I prefer fame though. Think it is much simple.

[JPierreD]

If you make it expensive then it won't be any more exploited than those who invest in regions, gaining prestige for it.