Recent Change to Generals

[De-Legro]

easier to look things up on the spot than talk and wait for replies that might not be given within the turn.

to be honest, there's no reason to hide it from anyone in the army anyway.. it tends to be mentioned in orders.. or at least the orders tend to include a load of settings... and i've yet to see someone give out orders and use a different formation for the purpose of anti espionage

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anyway.. nothing in the game currently stops any tom, dick and harry issuing orders. whether refusal to follow that order will exact any retribution is down to the players

Um, I've very rarely seen marshals post the Marshal formation they are going to use. That is very different from the unit settings that everyone tends to paste into standing orders. But then I tend to leave unit setting to the unit leaders, unless we aren't using a marshal formation.

[Penchant]

I actually know that the realm I am in has done the formation different then the settings gave so that any spies would give the enemy the wrong formation to counter. If there are no spies you have no harm from it but if there are you gain getting your enemy to use the wrong formation.

[De-Legro]

I actually know that the realm I am in has done the formation different then the settings gave so that any spies would give the enemy the wrong formation to counter. If there are no spies you have no harm from it but if there are you gain getting your enemy to use the wrong formation.

I don't get it. Formations and Settings are two very different things. Now if the Marshal posted he was going to use Delay and Wound but in reality was going to use Infantry Charge sure I get that would confuse spies. But using Delay and Wound after telling all infantry to deploy line/rear whatever doesn't seem to impart much. Maybe I'm just confusing terminology.

[Penchant]

Formations and settings aren't different actually its just the formations are names for a group of settings. So I believe settings for a formation were posted which is equal to posting a formation if the enemy is not being lazy with the info.

[De-Legro]

Formations and settings aren't different actually its just the formations are names for a group of settings. So I believe settings for a formation were posted which is equal to posting a formation if the enemy is not being lazy with the info.

Formations will change your line position. Some of the most advanced formations will affect if your units are in box or something. But the posted line settings have no bearing on intel. Savy spy masters will know they are for the situations were a Marshal or VM isn't available. You don't in general look to the standard line settings and make assumptions about the formations that will be used, its just too much of an assumption.

[Dante Silverfire]

FWIW - GoldPanda has been running CE's war machine for, what, 2.5 years now? This guy knows what he's talking about.

This is an understatement. GoldPanda has been running the entire CE and allied realm's military's for the past 2.5 years. I am highly convinced that not only does he know what he's talking about but that he's the reason CE is winning and will win the current Atamara war.

The main issue that I think needs to be highlighted about this whole thing is that Generals should have the ability to see the same information, but it could be just as easily stated somewhere that it is encouraged for Generals to operate differently than they do now. However, as it is SO hard to find good marshals now-a-days, it really shouldn't be made any more difficult to lead the military. Shoot, there is exactly one noble in Coria that has proven they have both the time, dedication, and tactical awareness to lead the military right now, and its GoldPanda's character. The problem is that even though others have the tactical awareness, not everyone can dedicate the sheer amount of time necessary to have orders sent out in a timely manner. (Yes, this means that orders should be sent within an hour of the turn change or don't expect anyone to move. This is just simple game fact.)

I'd love to be able to be Marshal again, but it just takes sooo much time, that I can't dedicate. For those people that are willing to put forth that time and can do so, I say we let them regardless of whether or not they hold the Marshal or General title. Give the General the information, and let the players decide how best to use it so that the most people have fun. (And one thing that allows more fun, is if people aren't forced into more difficult situations due to lack of information).

[Tom]

Then we can add a SecondFormation field.

We could, but we shouldn't.

Let them fight over the formation if they want, but don't let the formation change unpredictably depending on who of them happens to be there.

[GoldPanda]

I added a note in the bug tracker about how Vice Marshal titles need to be displayed in their message signatures. Knights are more likely to obey an order from "Vice Marshal of (your army here)" than "Knight of Bumtown (wherever that is)".

[De-Legro]

This is an understatement. GoldPanda has been running the entire CE and allied realm's military's for the past 2.5 years. I am highly convinced that not only does he know what he's talking about but that he's the reason CE is winning and will win the current Atamara war.

The main issue that I think needs to be highlighted about this whole thing is that Generals should have the ability to see the same information, but it could be just as easily stated somewhere that it is encouraged for Generals to operate differently than they do now. However, as it is SO hard to find good marshals now-a-days, it really shouldn't be made any more difficult to lead the military. Shoot, there is exactly one noble in Coria that has proven they have both the time, dedication, and tactical awareness to lead the military right now, and its GoldPanda's character. The problem is that even though others have the tactical awareness, not everyone can dedicate the sheer amount of time necessary to have orders sent out in a timely manner. (Yes, this means that orders should be sent within an hour of the turn change or don't expect anyone to move. This is just simple game fact.)

I'd love to be able to be Marshal again, but it just takes sooo much time, that I can't dedicate. For those people that are willing to put forth that time and can do so, I say we let them regardless of whether or not they hold the Marshal or General title. Give the General the information, and let the players decide how best to use it so that the most people have fun. (And one thing that allows more fun, is if people aren't forced into more difficult situations due to lack of information).

This is a perception problem. If people were willing to accept an army that didn't react every turn, that didn't have orders out with 2 hours of the turn etc then many more people would be willing to be marshals. Our constant drive to have "exceptional" armies has created the problem with finding people to take the roles. As it currently stands there is nothing even CLOSE to being light weight about taking on a military role.

[vonGenf]

I've been a marshal before. I know it takes a lot of time, and I stopped playing the marshal type of character when I had to cut back on my online time. I know it's hard, and you can't do it on 10 minutes a day. However.....

(Yes, this means that orders should be sent within an hour of the turn change or don't expect anyone to move. This is just simple game fact.)

This can be easily avoided by careful army management. A good marshall will always ensure that its army know what to do. You can send orders of the type

"If X happens on turn change, move to region 1.
If Y happens, move to region 2.
If Z happens, dig in.

Otherwise, wait for additional orders."

Then you can sleep through the 5AM turn change and see what happened at lunch. It's hard to miss a turn as marshal, sure, but it's not true that you need to wake up in the middle of the night, neither as marshal or general.

[De-Legro]

I've been a marshal before. I know it takes a lot of time, and I stopped playing the marshal type of character when I had to cut back on my online time. I know it's hard, and you can't do it on 10 minutes a day. However.....

This can be easily avoided by careful army management. A good marshall will always ensure that its army know what to do. You can send orders of the type

"If X happens on turn change, move to region 1.
If Y happens, move to region 2.
If Z happens, dig in.

Otherwise, wait for additional orders."

Then you can sleep through the 5AM turn change and see what happened at lunch. It's hard to miss a turn as marshal, sure, but it's not true that you need to wake up in the middle of the night, neither as marshal or general.

I completely agree, this is exactly what I am trying to do on a larger scale with the general. Then given enough information from me the Marshal can in turn provide some parameters for standing orders for the knights. The end result would hopefully be that give a bit of though the majority of the knights can arrive at the correct action without explicit orders. Mind you it helps I am in a small realm, I'm not sure I am up to the effort of establishing this sort of system on a larger scale.

(Yes, this means that orders should be sent within an hour of the turn change or don't expect anyone to move. This is just simple game fact.)

Thanks for proving my point. Opinions like this is EXACTLY why people won't take a military role as well as being complete rubbish. If you don't get orders out early you risk SOME people not following them, depending on the realm and people play time. Besides which this assumption of required times for orders skirts dangerously close to a IA violation in my opinion.

Personally I miss the sunset turn. Depending on the time of year it is often up to 6 hours after turn that I can log in. Solaria was still able to have great movement rates without it.

[Indirik]

This is a perception problem. If people were willing to accept an army that didn't react every turn, that didn't have orders out with 2 hours of the turn etc got it's ass kicked on a regular basis then many more people would be willing to be marshals.

ftfy....

Seriously.

[Indirik]

Then you can sleep through the 5AM turn change and see what happened at lunch. It's hard to miss a turn as marshal, sure, but it's not true that you need to wake up in the middle of the night, neither as marshal or general.

Yes, that can work. I've had success with that when leading armies in Perdan before. If you are leading the right people, who are willing to make that decision, tell other people they are making that decision, and then report to the MC that they made that decision, it can work great. With other groups of people it falls flat on its face. Which just goes to show that you need to know the people you are leading, and lead them appropriately.

[Anaris]

ftfy....

Seriously.

Well, it's obviously a circular problem. Because some realms' armies can achieve that level of responsiveness, any enemies of theirs that fail to match or beat it will consistently get defeated.

If we could have a general agreement that it's Not On to require that, that would change things. But it ain't gonna happen.

[Anaris]

Yes, that can work. I've had success with that when leading armies in Perdan before. If you are leading the right people, who are willing to make that decision, tell other people they are making that decision, and then report to the MC that they made that decision, it can work great. With other groups of people it falls flat on its face. Which just goes to show that you need to know the people you are leading, and lead them appropriately.

Yeah, I've had armies where, if you gave them a conditional like that, 1/3 of them would do the first thing, 1/3 would do the second, and 1/3 would do the third. Because "that's what you said to do".