Delayed Standing Orders

[egamma]

Title: Delayed Standing Orders

Summary:
I think many marshals would like to avoid saying "next turn" in the standing orders, because when the next turn rolls around, well, it still says "next turn.". Some sort of "rolling" standing orders would be nice.

Details::
Todays orders until dusk: Move to Region A
Tonights orders: Wait for stragglers and misdirect to region B
Tomorrows orders: Move to region C
Tomorrow nights orders: Wait for stragglers and misdirect to region D
Next: Move to region D

Each turn, the orders move up one slot, so that everyone knows what they should be doing at that time, and what they should do the next turn.

To keep this from becoming useless in actual combat, marshals should be able to delete one or all of the orders.

And yes, there is a risk from planning 4 days in advance: if your marshal gets stabbed, then players may follow the wrong orders.

Benefits:
This would reduce confusion in the army about which orders are current. This would also make it easier for players to play the marshal position, which is currently very demanding in terms of time commitment.

Possible Exploits:
Possibly used to impact activity levels by using as a jusitifcation for fining players?

[Velax]

I love this idea. The only problem would be to get players to actually read the damn Standing Orders.

[egamma]

I love this idea. The only problem would be to get players to actually read the damn Standing Orders.

I think knowing that the orders are current will help with that.

[egamma]

oh, this is basically the same as: http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=4049

[Indirik]

I hate when people order armies by using the standing orders. I doubt this will change my opinion of this practice.

[egamma]

I hate when people order armies by using the standing orders. I doubt this will change my opinion of this practice.

What do you think of the practice of armies ordering marshals (through IC complaints or slow movement) to log on right after turn change?

[Indirik]

Ordering marshals to log on immediately following a turn change is a violation of the IR, and should be reported immediately.

It also is irrelevant to this discussion.

[Penchant]

It is not irrelevant as that is one of the key reasons.egamma didn't say they told him out of character but that the rate of movement is terrible if he doesn't and in-character complaints are done. So if he wants to be a good marshall, have an army that doesn't have a ton of stragglers, and actually win wars, he will need to be logging on right after turn change but with delayed standing orders it does not require that making the job possible for more players to do effectively because if you have great strategy and tactics it isn't very useful when half your army follow your orders because orders weren't issued in time. This is a change that will improve the job of marshall a ton so that there isn't only 1 person in a realm that can be marshall because no one else fit for the job can get on in time to give orders early in the turn.

[fodder]

don't need new thing for that...
a simple standing order of:

monday sunrise
X orders

monday sunset
Y orders

will do.

[egamma]

(FYI--I am not playing any marshal characters at the moment, but I am a sponsor who is trying to make the life of my marshal easier. I'm on my second one in two weeks, I suspect the first one will autopause any day now.)

Ordering marshals to log on immediately following a turn change is a violation of the IR, and should be reported immediately.

It also is irrelevant to this discussion.

Not talking about an IR violation, but about the "5 minutes a day and at your own time and pace" game design principles, for both marshal and army-members. Just the simple fact that a marshal will lose 10% of his CS for every hour that he delays in sending out orders. Being able to give people a list of orders with a clearly marked time for executing them reduces pressure on army members to log in late in the turn, and reduces pressure on the marshal to log in early in the turn.

Basically, I am trying to make it easier for people to play the marshal position, and improve army cohesiveness. This feature would also help somewhat with the "saxon problem" where a hyperactive realm can defeat a less active realm.

We can talk about how many days out the orders can be set. 4 turns? 8 turns?

don't need new thing for that...
a simple standing order of:

monday sunrise
X orders

monday sunset
Y orders

will do.

True, but as soon as you don't remove the oldest orders, it looks like you're falling down on the job, maybe the orders are no longer correct, etc.

[fodder]

eh? the whole point is that you have already issued the new sets of orders based on guesses. it's no more correct or wrong than if you've issued a delayed one

sure, delayed SO might seem to look better, but if you think about it, it isn't


also bear in mind that anyone can issue orders. so if a marshal can't be around early enough, then someone else in the decision making group can do it, providing decisions have already been made

[egamma]

eh? the whole point is that you have already issued the new sets of orders based on guesses. it's no more correct or wrong than if you've issued a delayed one

sure, delayed SO might seem to look better, but if you think about it, it isn't


also bear in mind that anyone can issue orders. so if a marshal can't be around early enough, then someone else in the decision making group can do it, providing decisions have already been made

How many times do you actually see that happen? I've seen people issue orders and get slapped down for it, or I've seen nobody issue orders. Rare is the realm where you have competent people in the right place at the right time issuing the right orders.

[fodder]

but you are not really issuing orders on your own, you are just picking from a list of what's already been decided.

obviously that can only happen if someone came up with a list in the 1st place.

[Gustav Kuriga]

fodder, I think you've confused yourself

[fodder]

eh, no. the whole point is that the marshal or council which would include marshal decided on the orders for the following turn. then whoever is on 1st give them out (drawn from a list of possible scenarios)

anyone can issue orders, whether anyone follow them is another matter. if a marshal and his command group decides on the strategy and tactics, and made that known that's how it would work and no one follows it because it ain't the marshal issuing it in person, then clearly they don't really much care about the marshal anyway and the only reason they might follow him is the threat of fines and what not for not following an "official marshal order". in which case, you've lost already.

--
obviously this is not all that related to delayed standing orders. but i've already said why it's not necessary, because it can be done already with existing tools. only issue is one of perception. just because the game flips a "page" for you does not mean that new "page" is any better or newer than if it was all written on the same page. if anything, it gives a misleading impression that it's based on latest intelligence rather than a (possibly educated) guess from the turn before.