Not being able to kick out priests of a religion

[vonGenf]

A Hussite noble priest in a Catholic realm would usually only be able to use their temples by the force of arms, unless the ones in charge of the temple were also Hussites. The problem is that we don't have the ability to declare a Priest from within our Church a heretic.

Yes, a Hussite noble preaching in a Catholic realm would be prevented from preaching by the realm's authority. You can arrest priests.


What you are asking for is for the Catholic hierarchy to tell the peasants in an Orthodox realm not to listen to the Hussite priests, or even possibly in an Hussite realm! The temples are physical buildings within realms, the realms already have all the tools at their disposal to fight priests who use them wrongly.

[vonGenf]

Make it so that Aspirant ranked priests can only Preach and Pray for Signs.  Some features are already only available to Elders after promotion.  By demotion it would act similar to how Exiles work in a realm heirarchy.

Have a priests that's a pain in the ass?  Demote him to aspirant so he can't do any negative actions.  Worried about spies?  Send messages to full members only.  It's not like if you're truely worried about spies that you aren't already doing this anyways, since ANYONE can join ANY guild so long as they're not trying to join a second religion simultaneously.

This seems a very sensible and simple option.

[Chenier]

The main issue I've read that doesn't relate to schisms is that people bring in priests as spies and saboteurs.

A solution that doesn't seem hard to code, and more of a tweak:

Make it so that Aspirant ranked priests can only Preach and Pray for Signs.  Some features are already only available to Elders after promotion.  By demotion it would act similar to how Exiles work in a realm heirarchy.

Have a priests that's a pain in the ass?  Demote him to aspirant so he can't do any negative actions.  Worried about spies?  Send messages to full members only.  It's not like if you're truely worried about spies that you aren't already doing this anyways, since ANYONE can join ANY guild so long as they're not trying to join a second religion simultaneously.

Doesn't prevent griefers from spamming.

I've heard of it happening, people joining guilds to spam and rejoining as soon as they get kicked out. This way, they don't even need to pay the admission fee to continue spamming.

[Psyche]

That's what the ignore button is for.

[Tom]

I have personally been griefed in the past by people joining my religion to get temple locations, and I know of others who have been griefed by people joining the religion to spam. Had the griefers known they could become priests for unlimited griefing powers,

Only if you promote them to full members first, so they can become priests. So this argument of yours has no bearing on the argument of this topic. For those "griefers" you speak about, your religion does have a ban option.

[Tom]

Why not simply have a button that every single Elder of the religion must press in order for the Priest to be kicked out?

Because there is absolutely no code to support such a thing, and it would require changes to code, database, etc.

[Tom]

A Hussite noble priest in a Catholic realm would usually only be able to use their temples by the force of arms,

Which means whenever he wants to, because as a noble he'd carry a sword and the peasants don't.

[Tom]

It'll be many months, if not years. There is no current activity on implementing shisms.

The problem is that at the time of the "ban", we don't yet know what the victim wants to do. Just leave, schism, try to cling on? We also do not currently have a place to store this "banned from church" information in order to delay it (like bans are) so he can make a choice we can react to.

Basically, anything discussed so far requires changes not only to the code, but also to the database. And during a total code conversion like we are still doing, that's not going to happen unless it is really important. And sorry to say that, in a game with 1000 players and 6 game worlds, a single current case simply isn't important.

[Anaris]

The main issue I've read that doesn't relate to schisms is that people bring in priests as spies and saboteurs.

A solution that doesn't seem hard to code, and more of a tweak:

Make it so that Aspirant ranked priests can only Preach and Pray for Signs.  Some features are already only available to Elders after promotion.  By demotion it would act similar to how Exiles work in a realm heirarchy.

Have a priests that's a pain in the ass?  Demote him to aspirant so he can't do any negative actions.  Worried about spies?  Send messages to full members only.  It's not like if you're truely worried about spies that you aren't already doing this anyways, since ANYONE can join ANY guild so long as they're not trying to join a second religion simultaneously.

And just what, exactly, are you even doing here still? You've been locked for multicheating twice now.

Go away and stop trolling us.

[Zakilevo]

And just what, exactly, are you even doing here still? You've been locked for multicheating twice now.

Go away and stop trolling us.

oh he was a troll.

Well hopefully the code change will be done by the end of the year.

[Psyche]

Offering advice.

[Penchant]

He wasn't acting rude or aggressive or anything so though he may of cheated but that doesn't mean he is trolling by posting a good idea to the forum.

[pcw27]

Only if you promote them to full members first, so they can become priests. So this argument of yours has no bearing on the argument of this topic. For those "griefers" you speak about, your religion does have a ban option.

But that's the problem, they can't be demoted back down to aspirant or kicked once they're found out as spies. It makes no logical sense for any organization to allow a known spie to continue receiving their information just because they were ordained.

[Tom]

But that's the problem,

No. Read the post I was replying to. It was claiming that anyone could walk in, become a priest and be an instant, immune spy.

[Geronus]

Most religions are not going to conduct background checks on people interested in becoming full members, nor should they have to. That's an onerous burden to place on them. A character doesn't have to tell you he wants to be priest, he just has to become a full member, then can become a priest at any time with or without prior notice.

Religions aren't secret societies; they should not need to screen every prospective full member to make absolutely sure they can be trusted. Religions are by their very nature inclusive, and have to be in order to thrive. Your continued intimations that they should be more careful and less trusting run contrary to what a religion is supposed to be, both in terms of game mechanics and in terms of what a religion is in real life.

I am sympathetic to what you're saying about coding limitations. If the Elders vote approach won't work, what about black marks, they way a lord can kick out a knight? Maybe reserve it for the ranking Elder? Or hell, honestly, why not just let them be kicked like any other member? As you've said, the complexities of whether or not he'd even want to take followers with him are simply beyond what we can do at the moment. Instead of idealizing that scenario, why not just fix it right now by giving religions the ability to kick them out as any other member, then address the entire issue with as much depth and detail as desired at such a time as schisms can be fully implemented? The current situation is not good. I get that you'd like kicking a priest to be a richer source of conflict, but we just don't have the mechanics to support that now. Leaving things as they are is not better.