Surrender duels as a training method

[vonGenf]

People fought "private" duels all the time IRL, and people would do it ingame too, when their realm forbids dueling.

Yes, of course. As I said, the mechanics does already exist. If you want to ask the target's "permission" first, RP a bit before you click the button.

[Anaris]

Yes, of course. As I said, the mechanics does already exist. If you want to ask the target's "permission" first, RP a bit before you click the button.

What button? The Infiltrator Assault button, that only a few people have?

[pcw27]

Absolutely not.

Duels are matters of honor between nobles used to resolve conflicts between them. They are not practice sessions, sparring matches, dueling leagues, training fights, light recreation, or whatever other rationalization you want to invent to jusify abusing game mechanics.

If you want to spar with another noble to test your skills, then use the special Training Match option. If you're on stable, then just cool our jets til it gets there.

Training match requires an academy, which I guess we're getting. I didn't realize it was considered abuse to have a surrender duel for reasons other then a genuine dispute.

Is there a wiki page about training matches? I didn't see one when I last looked.

[pcw27]

So here's my take on everything that has been said:

   
• We need to remove training benefits from duels ASAP
• We should remove the distinction between surrender and death. Formally, all duels are "until one side is unfit to continue the duel". Informally, we allow players to choose, like they choose a strategy, to go into the duel with mercy or killing in mind. That offers options for roleplaying if we make it so that even if you go mercy there's a small chance of a killing blow and even if you go for killing there's a small chance you just can't get that killing blow in. That opens the way for claiming "oops, I didn't mean it" and since all duels can end in death, it wouldn't ever be your fault.
• Allow players to put something on the line - a title or an amount of honour. The risk of death should be enough to stop people from abusing the system as a cheap appointment replacement.

What do you guys think?

The ability to chose if you want to kill or not is a good idea.

I don't think there needs to be a mechanic for dueling over a title, that can easily be roleplayed. Wouldn't allowing people to duel to gain honor go against several past rejections of honor gain through dueling?

[egamma]

So here's my take on everything that has been said:

   
• We need to remove training benefits from duels ASAP
• We should remove the distinction between surrender and death. Formally, all duels are "until one side is unfit to continue the duel". Informally, we allow players to choose, like they choose a strategy, to go into the duel with mercy or killing in mind. That offers options for roleplaying if we make it so that even if you go mercy there's a small chance of a killing blow and even if you go for killing there's a small chance you just can't get that killing blow in. That opens the way for claiming "oops, I didn't mean it" and since all duels can end in death, it wouldn't ever be your fault.
• Allow players to put something on the line - a title or an amount of honour. The risk of death should be enough to stop people from abusing the system as a cheap appointment replacement.

What do you guys think?

I like it. There should be a bit of a 'prisoners dilemma' where a person who chooses mercy would be at a disadvantage against one who chooses to go for the kill.

As for putting something on the line, I think honour should be required to be risked by at least one party. I also think that both characters should have to agree to what is on the line for the duel to continue, something like this:

1. Player A challenges Player B to a duel, and puts his honor on the line, and chooses how bloodthirsty he will be.
2. Player B accepts the duel, puts his title on the line, and chooses how bloodthirsty he will be.
3. Player A must accept the duel terms (title versus honour) before the duel can start. Maybe another opportunity to adjust the lethality for Player A?

[Telrunya]

Just have Player A state what both will be risking, then have B accept/refuse the duel. That's one step less and if they disagree, they can always first bicker about what they put on the line before sending out the official Duel.

[pcw27]

Another cool idea might be to actually assign seconds. Then there can be an option to "cheat" which can give the player an advantage, but also can be seen by the second allowing them to intervene.

[Indirik]

How about we don't kill this idea by loading it down with more and more features and complexities? Keep it to an absolute minimum, please.

[Tom]

Sounds good. What about this:

No. Overcomplication, loss of focus, bad balancing.

[Tom]

2. This is a great idea, but I would suggest a modification. Going into a "duel until disabled" duel and using killing tactics should have some repercussions.

No, and absolutely "never, ever, over my dead body" on the "private duel". The whole point about duels is that they have an audience. Might not be a crowd, but if you want to have a 1-on-1, become an infiltrator.

[Norrel]

No, and absolutely "never, ever, over my dead body" on the "private duel". The whole point about duels is that they have an audience. Might not be a crowd, but if you want to have a 1-on-1, become an infiltrator.

If duels are a public affair, why not send the realm a report of the duel and tactics used?

[Tom]

How about we don't kill this idea by loading it down with more and more features and complexities? Keep it to an absolute minimum, please.

Thank you.


No seconds, no cheating, none of that overcomplication bull!@#$ of matrix choices. Really, it adds NOTHING to gameplay except more buttons. Titles would work exactly like Telrunya mentioned. The challenger would specify what he's challenging for. The other guy would get a message saying "Kepler has challenged you to a duel over your title of Baron of Keplerville. Do you accept? If you lose this duel, you will forfeit your title to him."

And if Kepler wins, bang, he's Baron of Keplerville. The game mechanics aren't that complicated.

[Tom]

If duels are a public affair, why not send the realm a report of the duel and tactics used?

Why?

Duels are already public - everyone in the same region will be informed about the duel and its result, including tactics used.

Of course, if a title changes hands, that would be announced to the realm.

[Norrel]

Duels are already public - everyone in the same region will be informed about the duel and its result, including tactics used.

Didn't know this, forget everything I said.

[Indirik]

This also allows you to have your "private" duel. Just go to a region where you're the only two around. The only way anyone else will find out is if the result is a serious wound or death. Or if someone wanders in...