Deliberate use of a bug for IC gain.

[BattleMaster Server]

Summary:	Deliberate use of a bug for IC gain.
Violation:	Social Contract, §2 Fair Play
World:	Dwilight
Complainer:	Michael
About:	Orris

Full Complaint Text:
The realm of Summerdale took over a region a few days ago, Mt Black Nastrod, from the Libero Empire.  Orris Morton was the former lord of the region (he belongs to the Libero Empire).  A bug occurred, and was reported via the bug tracker (http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6752) where he remained the region lord, even after the region changed realms and he remained with the Libero Empire.   Just a few moments ago, Orris took advantage of this bug to change the region's allegiance back to that of his realm.   I think this is a clear violation of the second clause of the social contract, from an experienced player (almost 4 years) who should know, even without reading a bug report, that he wasn't supposed to retain lordship after his realm lost the region.

[^ban^]

Standing dev-team policy on bugs is that a) the effects of bugs do not get fixed and b) players are expected to play out the consequences of any bugs however they wish.

[Brant]

"Do not exploit bugs to gain in-game advantages. Bring them to the attention of the dev team so we can fix them. If you are not sure if something that seems odd is a bug or not, ask. "

My complaint is of a violation of the social contract, not the dev team policy.

[LilWolf]

To me this seems like a pretty clear cut case of abusing a bug for your gain, which is very much forbidden. The player needs to be punished.

[Vellos]

The dev policy and the social contract don't contradict.

We don't fix it and flip the region back.

We do punish exploitation of the bug.

This is an obvious exploitation of a bug.

[Velax]

This is that weird one with the message:

"Summerdale has taken control of Mt. Black Nastrond. The region used to belong to Summerdale."

Is it at all possible that he switched the region to Summerdale himself before the takeover was successful, thus keeping the lordship, but due to a bug the takeover continued and then "succeeded". Positive I've seen something like that happen before.

[Broose]

This is that weird one with the message:

"Summerdale has taken control of Mt. Black Nastrond. The region used to belong to Summerdale."

Is it at all possible that he switched the region to Summerdale himself before the takeover was successful, thus keeping the lordship, but due to a bug the takeover continued and then "succeeded". Positive I've seen something like that happen before.

That would have made him a member of Summerdale, right? I'm fairly sure that he never showed up on the member list.

[Tom]

Bug exploit.

The message Broose posted points to a takeover. If he had switched, then a) he would've switched realms as well and b) the message would've said that the lord switched the allegiance.

[Dante Silverfire]

How is this a bug exploit?

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that whoever this lord is will be punished simply because he took a legitimate in game action to respond to the *effects* of the bug.

From my understanding this was the sequence of events:

1. Summerdale takes over a region.

2. The region lord remains region lord (bug).

3. The region lord decides to switch his region back to that of his realm. (accused bug exploit)

The problem that I have with this is that the region lord cannot be expected to do anything different from an IC sense of things. It is SMA for him to have his region serve whichever Duke he wishes. If he is lord he can choose his Duke, and thus his realm. A bug occurred, and kept him as lord of the region, that is not his fault. Both he and Summerdale ahve the choice of responding to the situation as they wish.

Should the region lord be expected to simply step down from his lordship position because a bug occurred? This causes a penalty of honor and prestige to the lord for doing so, as this makes him look weak IC wise. I would say absolutely not. What can the region lord do without being accused of bug abuse? Does he simply have to sit in his region and wait to be banned from the new realm because of his misfortune?

If he waits 2 months, and remains region lord by permission of the new realm, if he then decides to change back to his old realm via his rights as lord is this a bug abuse? (It has been repeatedly stated, that time involved in certain things does not change whether something is an abuse or not, so both cases would be the same perception.)

[BardicNerd]

What happened is this:

Summerdale invaded the region, which belonged to Libero.  Orris was at that time the lord.  He was captured by Summerdale, losing the lordship.  A referendum to elect a new lord was automatically generated.  Orris escaped from prison, and entered the election.  Summerdale completed the TO.  One day later, there was a message that they had TOed it from themselves.  The election was completed, and Orris elected (and apparently made a member of Summerdale), and installed as lord.  Orris changed allegiance of the region.


My views as ruler of Libero: I think this is, at the least, somewhat suspect, and I honestly do not really approve . . . however, the real bug is not that he was able to change the allegiance of the region, but that the election successfully completed.  When the election finished, I didn't actually think it made him lord, regardless of what it said . . . I was rather surprised when I saw the message that he had changed the region's allegiance.

In my opinion, it's less than honorable, but since he was lord, entirely legal for him to do . . . the bug was that he became lord in the first place, but he didn't try to exploit a bug to cause that.  A bug may have created the situation of him being lord, but my understanding is that this doesn't make him any less lord (which I disagree with, personally, but I'm not a dev, so my opinion matters little).

[BardicNerd]

That would have made him a member of Summerdale, right? I'm fairly sure that he never showed up on the member list.

While I didn't notice him being gone from the realm at the time, the character list for Libero shows him as being a member for 0 days, so presumably he was.  How closely have you looked at the member list the past two days or so?

[Broose]

While I didn't notice him being gone from the realm at the time, the character list for Libero shows him as being a member for 0 days, so presumably he was.  How closely have you looked at the member list the past two days or so?

I think I would have noticed. I do know that after the takeover, none of the realm messages were sent to him. Maybe his time in the realm reset without him ever actually leaving.

Should the region lord be expected to simply step down from his lordship position because a bug occurred? This causes a penalty of honor and prestige to the lord for doing so, as this makes him look weak IC wise. I would say absolutely not. What can the region lord do without being accused of bug abuse? Does he simply have to sit in his region and wait to be banned from the new realm because of his misfortune?

His two choices were not to either step down or undo all our takeover work. He could have done nothing, or asked a developer/admin for advice. Given the circumstances, he made the worst choice, and that choice happened to give him a significant advantage. I don't see how expecting him to step down or do nothing is any less reasonable than that.

[Anaris]

The fact that it was a bug should be obvious to all but the newest of newbies. Based on the complete description, the actual point of the bug was that the referendum for Lord did not end when it should have. This is not a big surprise to me as a dev, as these are still relatively fresh areas of the transitioned code.

The fact that he abused the bug to his and his realm's significant advantage should also be obvious.

What his other options might have been are irrelevant. When confronted with a bug of this nature, the last thing any honourable player should think to do is turn the bug to his advantage in ways he could not have if the bug had not occurred.

[Chenier]

The dev policy and the social contract don't contradict.

We don't fix it and flip the region back.

We do punish exploitation of the bug.

This is an obvious exploitation of a bug.

I am of the same opinion.

This bug presented to unwarranted prejudice to the lord in order to warrant him switching back to undo intended game behavior.

Therefore, it's a case of taking advantage of a bug to gain personal advantages.

[Brant]

I did check, from the day we noticed he was lord, and he was never listed as a noble of Summerdale under the "Character List".  I also checked his player page where it listed Libero Empire as his character's realm.