Removal from position due to inactivity/OOC issues

[Chaotrance13]

I have a question for the Magistrates regarding the Inalienable Rights, specifically if they extend to removing someone from a position due to the amount they play.

I'll set the scene, if you will: one of the Realm's leaders is not playing as much as they used to, or is having OOC/RL issues preventing them from playing. In turn, a group of players are intending to use the Protest or Rebellion options in order to oust this leader because of their inactivity.

Now, given that the game automatically removes those that don't log in from their positions, and the IRs state that players are allowed to play as little or as much as they like - Is it against the IRs to use IC/in-game methods to remove someone for not playing as much?

[Tom]

absolutely, yes. I don't even see where there could be any room for thinking otherwise.

[Nathan]

In turn, a group of players are intending to use the Protest or Rebellion options in order to oust this leader because of their inactivity.

When you use the word "inactivity", do you mean "not logging in"? Or do you mean "we're at war and they aren't contacting our allies for help"?

Because if it's simply because they're not logging in, I'd agree with Tom. But if it's something that's effecting how your realm is functioning and you can't get rid of them through elections, then I'd say there may be room to say they can protest them out of office.

[egamma]

absolutely, yes. I don't even see where there could be any room for thinking otherwise.

Tom, I think you've said before that characters could be punished for not performing their duties. Clearly, the player is logging in, otherwise the game would kick them--but his character is not doing whatever he is supposed to be doing.

[Tom]

Tom, I think you've said before that characters could be punished for not performing their duties. Clearly, the player is logging in, otherwise the game would kick them--but his character is not doing whatever he is supposed to be doing.

For failure to perform - yes. But not for inactivity. There's a difference. It's a bit tricky sometimes, but it's there.

[Vellos]

If the players are talking about inactivity of the ruler's player, I would have very grave concerns.

If the characters are talking about inadequacy of the ruling character, I would applaud fun politics.

If both are happening simultaneously, I would get a very annoyed expression on my face, make a blanket warning about respecting the IRs, then wait for a reaction.

Players just don't need to talk about "activity." Just ignore it. Have your characters talk about dereliction of duty. As a player who has been in numerous realms with "inactive" rulers, and as a player who has PLAYED a council member who was intentionally engaging in dereliction of duty and feigning "inactivity" through non-responsiveness, I am pretty confident that, if the realm is suffering, IC reasons probably exist, and the characters involved should work with those reasons. Nothing else.

[Tom]

if the realm is suffering, IC reasons probably exist, and the characters involved should work with those reasons. Nothing else.

Amen

[Bedwyr]

Never, ever mention activity, and any protests based on activity will be shot down with fiery vengeance.

Feel free to say "you got us into this damn war and you haven't explained why, out with thee!"

[Geronus]

As is often the case with the Activity IR, what matters is not what you are doing, but why you are doing it. Punish a character for disobeying orders? Completely acceptable. Punish a character because the player won't log in at a certain time? Completely unacceptable.

I agree 100% with what Vellos said. If you are going to act against a character, it must be for IG reasons. If a ruler isn't doing his or her duty and the realm is suffering, then speak out against them on that basis. Do not talk OOC about getting rid of him because the player isn't active enough

Basically this: If you are planning to act against a character IG for IC reasons, you probably aren't doing anything wrong. If you are planning to act against a character IG for OOC reasons, you almost certainly are.

[Chaotrance13]

Thank you for the clarification guys, much appreciated.

[Cren]

Ok. A player's character holds position but doesn't perform any of its duties, assigns HIMSELF to an army but doesn't follow any orders and never replies a single message asking why he doesn't follow army orders, does log in regularly. What IG actions, if any, can be taken?

[Chaotrance13]

Ok. A player's character holds position but doesn't perform any of its duties, assigns HIMSELF to an army but doesn't follow any orders and never replies a single message asking why he doesn't follow army orders, does log in regularly. What IG actions, if any, can be taken?

First of all, this is a necropost. You've revived what was essentially a dead thread for no reason.

Secondly, this sounds like an IC issue rather than a Magistrates issue - Magistrates deal with breaches of the Social Contract and Inalienable Rights. If you have an issue with a character who is willfully disobeying or ignoring orders, then you need to consider issuing fines or an IC ban. I'd suggest opening a topic in the Helpline section and asking what can be done about it rather than doing it here.

With that in mind - this topic probably should be locked down for the time being.

[Indirik]

You can take any IG action against him that you want, so long as it is done for IG/IC reasons.

Not answering letters from the judge/ruler/duke? Fine him for being rude to his liege lord or sovereign ruler.

Not following orders from his Marshal? Fine him!

If he doesn't start answering letters or following orders, ban him.

In short, take any action that you want so long as it is based on the character's IC action/inaction, and not the Player's OOC log-in schedule.

[Geronus]

First of all, this is a necropost. You've revived what was essentially a dead thread for no reason.

Secondly, this sounds like an IC issue rather than a Magistrates issue - Magistrates deal with breaches of the Social Contract and Inalienable Rights. If you have an issue with a character who is willfully disobeying or ignoring orders, then you need to consider issuing fines or an IC ban. I'd suggest opening a topic in the Helpline section and asking what can be done about it rather than doing it here.

With that in mind - this topic probably should be locked down for the time being.

The Inalienable Rights are squarely within our purview, so it makes perfect sense to ask the Magistrates if you are worried that an action might violate them. Please do not discourage people from asking questions of us. The Questions and Answers board exists for a reason. Everyone should always feel free to ask questions about the rules.

Since Indirik has answered Cren's question, I will lock this topic.

Edit: Or maybe I won't. Didn't realize we don't have mod privileges on this board.