Granary count on FoodReport.php

[egamma]

Title: Add a granary count column to FoodReport.php

Summary: Bankers need to know how many granaries a region has, so that they can minimize food rot.

Details: FoodReport.php needs the number of granaries per region listed.

Benefits:This saves a banker the trouble of visiting each region page individually to find out which regions have rotting food, and which do not.

Possible Exploits: None. Information only.

[Tom]

It is not the bankers job to minimize food rot. He should put some more trust into his region lords.

[Norrel]

It is not the bankers job to minimize food rot. He should put some more trust into his region lords.

Isn't the entire purpose of a banker to take control of a section of a game many region lords find boring?

[Tom]

No, it isn't. If you find it boring, get a steward who doesn't.

[Chenier]

What *is* his role?

It's not as if he can build the warehouses for the lords. It's just helpful info, like every region's tax levels.

[Tom]

What *is* his role?

Having the big picture.

Tax rates, food stores, etc. are part of the big picture. Food rot isn't - it's on the order of a few percent. It shouldn't matter on the realm level. Let region lords and their stewards worry about it.

Also, I think you are still stuck in the ox cart system, mentally, where you would cart food around the realm for strategic reasons. Forget all about that.

[vonGenf]

Tax rates, food stores, etc. are part of the big picture.

I may have missed something here... what are granaries if they are not food stores?

[Chenier]

Having the big picture.

Tax rates, food stores, etc. are part of the big picture. Food rot isn't - it's on the order of a few percent. It shouldn't matter on the realm level. Let region lords and their stewards worry about it.

Also, I think you are still stuck in the ox cart system, mentally, where you would cart food around the realm for strategic reasons. Forget all about that.

Knowing who has lots of granaries and who doesn't isn't part of the big picture?

It's really really tedious having to do a census of the granaries, asking the region lords how many granaries they have in order to update the records. It's tedious, but I'll continue doing it.

I think any realm with a food deficit wants, in one way or another, for a central figure to be able to help coordinate the lords in order to minimize rot.

[Anaris]

No, it isn't. If you find it boring, get a steward who doesn't.

Unfortunately, Tom, there are many realms in which there are 3 or 4 people (or even fewer) who actually find the food and trade system interesting.

This isn't their fault, and there's really no way to attempt to attract people who like handling food.

The Banker should be considered the person upon whom the realm's lords can rely to handle the food if they cannot or are not interested in doing so. It may not mesh with our vision for how the system ought to be set up, but it does acknowledge the reality that a huge majority of people in the game find managing food to be both deadly boring and very confusing.

[fodder]

basically, as mentioned, it's not hidden info. everyone can see it if they look up every single region details page of their realm.

only real question is whether it should tabulated for easy reading for the banker (or whoever)

[Tom]

I don't disagree with most that's been said. But two counterpoints:

One, ask why people don't like the food system, and how much of that is due to the old system. Have them look at the new one before they decide they don't like it.

Two, what do you even need the information for? Minimize rot? Please. How exactly do you plan to do that? You can't move the food around with ox carts anymore. If you intend to put it on the market, consider this first: I've not yet finished coding rot in the market and in transfer, and it will very likely be the same as storing it.

[Anaris]

One, ask why people don't like the food system, and how much of that is due to the old system. Have them look at the new one before they decide they don't like it.

That's certainly true. However, a) the old system has put some people off managing food in BattleMaster for good, and they're not even interested in looking at the new one, and b) other people will take a look at the new system and find it still too much bother for their taste.

Two, what do you even need the information for? Minimize rot? Please. How exactly do you plan to do that? You can't move the food around with ox carts anymore. If you intend to put it on the market, consider this first: I've not yet finished coding rot in the market and in transfer, and it will very likely be the same as storing it.

Tell Lord A to build more granaries, and Lord B to sell food to Lord C, who has plenty of extra space.

[Indirik]

One, ask why people don't like the food system

1) Managing food for larger, multi-duchy realms is a pain. It's a continuous fight and struggle with lords who either don't want to cooperate, or can't be bothered to cooperate. And every time a peasant starves, it's *your* fault. (Or at least everyone blames you. And I know that I've scapegoated the banker often enough for my own political agenda. (Sorry, Sparticus, you just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nothing personal, honest. :-[ ))
2) It's very demoralizing, especially if your realm runs a deficit. It's a constant struggle against which you cannot make headway, or dig yourself out of. With a war, you get a sense of progress. There's usually some ends to which you can look and say "When we get this far, we're done." Or if you're losing, you still know "When they get that far, we're done." But with the banker, all you have to look forward to is ... another week of starving peasants and angry lords.

Two, what do you even need the information for? Minimize rot? Please. How exactly do you plan to do that?

If you have some cooperative lords, you can move your excess storage from a region that has more than it can store to a region that has free space. We just did that in Astrum, moving several thousands bushels from city to city to get it stored in a warehouse before rot starts up again. This allows a lord that *likes* buying food, and playing the food game, to feed the realm, and make it easier for those of us that don't want to deal with it. The Duke says "I have 3,000 food for you." I pop up three 1,000 bushel orders, and we're done for a few weeks. He can go on buying food, and we have lots of food stored that doesn't rot.

Overall, I don't see any reason to not give the banker this information. They can get the info just by asking the lord. Would any lord really tell the banker "It's none of your business"? I mean, they could, but why? Not putting it in the report seems to me to be needlessly obscuring information in order to force people to interact over meaningless trivialities.

[Tom]

Tell Lord A to build more granaries, and Lord B to sell food to Lord C, who has plenty of extra space.

And that's exactly what I don't want. A banker ordering lords around on what to do with their(!!!) food.


The only real argument pro I've seen thus far is that the information is already available.

[Anaris]

And that's exactly what I don't want. A banker ordering lords around on what to do with their(!!!) food.

Not ordering, Tom. Managing. Facilitating. Paying attention to things and nudging Lords so they don't have to do it all themselves.

You don't seem to understand the degree to which most of the Lords in the game want someone else to do this stuff for them.