Religion is missing something?

[Galvez]

Elders already have the option to excommunicate non-priests members, Lords or not.

They can kick someone out, not excommunicate them.

[vonGenf]

They can kick someone out, not excommunicate them.

What do you mean by excommunicate then?

[Indirik]

Perhaps you mean you should be able to actively declare someone an enemy of the faith?

I'm not so sure this is really needed. If you want to cause trouble for a lord, then send in a priest to stir things up. Or, do a combination of things.

1) Kick him out of your faith.
2) Declare that your faith's followers should have no dealings with him.
3) Send in a priest to cause problems in his region.
4) Conduct an auto da fe, and kick him out of the lordship.

If you can't manage to get away with any of those, then you don't deserve the right to make trouble for him.

[Galvez]

1)  Giving religions (or rather, the elder priests of said religion) the option to excommunicate a lord.  This would make the followers of the lord's faith in that region more likely to revolt against them/increase unrest.

While the literally meaning of excommunication, i.e. putting someone out of communion can be compared with kicking someone out of a religion. I believe Draco is implying to the label 'excommunicated'. Much like a ban upon your head which prevents you from joining the said religion again. And if you are a Lord, being 'excommunicated' will cause unrest in your region.

[Indirik]

Much like a ban upon your head which prevents you from joining the said religion again. And if you are a Lord, being 'excommunicated' will cause unrest in your region.

Unfortunately, guilds and religions do not have any kind of ban mechanic. You can easily be kicked out, though. And you can put an entry price on them, so the troublemaker will have to pay to join.

If a lord is not a member of the dominant religion, there can be unrest in the region. Something about "The locals are upset that the lord doesn't belong to their faith." Yes, it is a small effect. If you want more of an effect, then send in a priest to give them some incentive to do more. Or just remove the lord from the region.

[Telrunya]

I believe there's an harsher effect if the the major faith of the peasants considers their Lord's Religion evil even, but now I can't check that...

Putting a high entry price and making sure the first Aspirant Rank requires manual promotion does wonders to keep Nobles out or does wonders to fill your Treasury. Not a bad compromise :)

[Bael]

Relating to religious power; is it only the Elder priests of a religion that can take over regions, or can any priest do it? This might be a limiting factor on the power of religion if it is so.

[Telrunya]

Only Elders can Claim Regions (RTO).

[songqu88@gmail.com]

RTO is not a very important part of a priest's power. It's used seldom, and the requirements are pretty steep. Far more useful are the various influence options.

[Bael]

RTO is not a very important part of a priest's power. It's used seldom, and the requirements are pretty steep. Far more useful are the various influence options.

Granted, but when one is talking about Dwilight it could certainly come in handy!

PS, thanks Telrunya :)

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Eh? You'd still need the infrastructure, and generally speaking on Dwilight you'll definitely want to do the normal military takeover for most situations. I believe the Cult of Orden tried to use the RTO to keep Ordenstaat alive or something. Worked pretty horribly for them. Hredmonath probably tried to supplant SA in Thulsoma. Worked pretty horribly for them.

Religion's major power isn't something direct. It's passive and it's insidious. It acts like a poison that circumvents defenses and alters through manipulation, not a blunt attack that attempts to force down defenses and alters through destruction.

[cjnodell]

I always figured that the key to a religions power was converting nobles, especially nobles in positions of power and by doing everything possible to ensure that those who gain positions of power are of the faith. Once that has happened, assuming you have managed to secure the characters loyalty, a role played "excommunication" can be truly painful. In this case I am referring to something along the lines of:

"All members of Religion X. This person has demonstrated themselves to be true heretics. It has been decided that they are to be excommunicated. From this point forward, none shall have any dealings with said individual. None shall support said individual in any way. None are to communicate with said individual in any way. None will allow this individual a platform from which they may influence others with their sinful ways. When this person has demonstrated their loyalty to the faith and has atoned for their wrong doings they will be welcomed back into the faith. Until that has happened any who defies this proclamation will be subject to disciplinary action."

If you have enough influential members this could cause some real issues for that person. If not, then you are kind of out of luck. In all I thin Indirik has it right though I think it could be cool if some features were added to increase the bite a little. Mostly passive things like hits to honor/prestige, negative reactions to peasants of the faith, the ability to ban from a religion, etc...

[Jens Namtrah]

4) Conduct an auto da fe, and kick him out of the lordship.

does auto da fe work now?

[Telrunya]

It does, yes, albeit I have yet to use it.

[Shenron]

If you can't manage to get away with any of those, then you don't deserve the right to make trouble for him.

Don't forget that SA is a one off thing that many people put lots of work into. You shouldn't hold other religions to the same standard.

It's like (but not a parallel to) saying "shut up and work harder: Albert Einstein came up with e=mc, you can come up with something too."

I think religions do need a little help in the game mechanic department to officialize their power. Yes it's true power can be roleplayed. It's also true that roleplayed power is *always* weaker than roleplayed+game mechanic power.

We need a way for nobles to officially put themselves at the mercy of the religion for certain bonuses and pronounced negatives for being an "anti-religion" guy. With the system we have now, many people just don't want religion because of constraints of freedom: I think this is very counter to SMA (I'm obviously talking about Dwilight here.)